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Unregistered
11-11-06, 13:07
Hi, my handle is obtuse_edge, I am a new member.

Yakshimusiz. I am Han Chinese, but grew up in the US, so I am Chinese American. I have been to Xinjiang, in fact, I have studied a lot about Uighurs, Central Asia and Islam. I often return back to China to travel or visit relatives.

I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?

I agree with you that China needs to dramatically change its human rights record. No matter how many benefits the state gives to minorities, without political expression and the freedom to express your feelings in a safe manner, there is no dignity. Actually, this goes for all Chinese citizens, but in Xinjiang, there is extra attention paid to the Uighurs. China's policy is counteractive, nothing can resolve the anger without freedom of expression and honest discussion, instead of just repeating the same tired Communist propaganda. Some Han Chinese like to point out that the govt. gives preferential policies to minorities based on college admission, birth control, etc. I think that these kind of policies can never make up for political repression and the inability to define your own culture on your own terms. I often thought that if I was Uighur, I would be among the most militant too.

As for independence, I don't think that's even a possibility. China will never allow Xinjiang to become an independent nation, it is too valuable. Also, it's not necessarily in the economic interests of Uighurs to become independent as well, China will become the world's superpower in twenty years, Uighurs have access to the future's largest economic power. Perhaps in the future when China becomes a democracy, Uighurs can form political lobby groups that may have some influence on China's foreign policy, in that vein, Uighurs might become one of the world's most influential Moslem groups as it may have influence in the world's superpower.

Anyways, those are my ideas. Feel free to challenge, criticize or agree. Thank you. Ramat Sizge!

Unregistered
11-11-06, 13:47
Sen Uyghurche oqup chushunelemsen?

Do you read and understand in Uyghur language?

Unregistered
11-11-06, 14:29
Hi, my handle is obtuse_edge, I am a new member.

Yakshimusiz. I am Han Chinese, but grew up in the US, so I am Chinese American. I have been to Xinjiang, in fact, I have studied a lot about Uighurs, Central Asia and Islam. I often return back to China to travel or visit relatives.

I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?

I agree with you that China needs to dramatically change its human rights record. No matter how many benefits the state gives to minorities, without political expression and the freedom to express your feelings in a safe manner, there is no dignity. Actually, this goes for all Chinese citizens, but in Xinjiang, there is extra attention paid to the Uighurs. China's policy is counteractive, nothing can resolve the anger without freedom of expression and honest discussion, instead of just repeating the same tired Communist propaganda. Some Han Chinese like to point out that the govt. gives preferential policies to minorities based on college admission, birth control, etc. I think that these kind of policies can never make up for political repression and the inability to define your own culture on your own terms. I often thought that if I was Uighur, I would be among the most militant too.

As for independence, I don't think that's even a possibility. China will never allow Xinjiang to become an independent nation, it is too valuable. Also, it's not necessarily in the economic interests of Uighurs to become independent as well, China will become the world's superpower in twenty years, Uighurs have access to the future's largest economic power. Perhaps in the future when China becomes a democracy, Uighurs can form political lobby groups that may have some influence on China's foreign policy, in that vein, Uighurs might become one of the world's most influential Moslem groups as it may have influence in the world's superpower.

Anyways, those are my ideas. Feel free to challenge, criticize or agree. Thank you. Ramat Sizge!

You are just old same chinese. The great Ding once said: white cat and black cat are just the same cats anyway. Thanks for your interest. Xie xie

Unregistered
11-11-06, 14:52
Sen Uyghurche oqup chushunelemsen?

Do you read and understand in Uyghur language?


I learned Arabic before, so I can read the Uighur alphabet, and I learned some Uighur when I went to Xinjiang.

Anyways, I think Deng said, no matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice, it's a good cat.

Well, I'm just here to understand more of your point of view, I'm not here expecting to make friends. I was born Han Chinese, I'm proud of that. You were born a Uighur and you have your own worldview. That's fine. But tell me one minority in the world that does not hate the majority? Uighurs hate Hans, Kurds hate Turks, Blacks hate Whites, etc. Yes, the hatred is based on past or ongoing injustice, but that won't be resolved without dialogue.

Unregistered
11-11-06, 15:54
I learned Arabic before, so I can read the Uighur alphabet, and I learned some Uighur when I went to Xinjiang.

Anyways, I think Deng said, no matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice, it's a good cat.

Well, I'm just here to understand more of your point of view, I'm not here expecting to make friends. I was born Han Chinese, I'm proud of that. You were born a Uighur and you have your own worldview. That's fine. But tell me one minority in the world that does not hate the majority? Uighurs hate Hans, Kurds hate Turks, Blacks hate Whites, etc. Yes, the hatred is based on past or ongoing injustice, but that won't be resolved without dialogue.

hey xitay, you know what is hate?

your goverment and ambasy hate me for not thing, not reason. why? because I know the true, because I am talking about the true. all the hate comes from your goverment.

sen Uyghurche yazghine, sen bilen koz qarishimizni almashturup baqayli.

Unregistered
11-11-06, 16:22
I learned Arabic before, so I can read the Uighur alphabet, and I learned some Uighur when I went to Xinjiang.

Anyways, I think Deng said, no matter if the cat is black or white, as long as it catches mice, it's a good cat.

Well, I'm just here to understand more of your point of view, I'm not here expecting to make friends. I was born Han Chinese, I'm proud of that. You were born a Uighur and you have your own worldview. That's fine. But tell me one minority in the world that does not hate the majority? Uighurs hate Hans, Kurds hate Turks, Blacks hate Whites, etc. Yes, the hatred is based on past or ongoing injustice, but that won't be resolved without dialogue.

Who are you to be eligibled for dialogue? Where is your table to sit down for dialogue? I have tow cents for you anyway.

Unregistered
11-11-06, 16:24
贪官玩女人出洋相 错把少数民族姑娘当俄罗斯美女

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倍可亲网站京港台时间11/11向您播报来自倍可亲网讯的消息:


倍可亲(backchina.com)作者:秦建中

  安徽省原副省长何闽旭的腐败丑行被揭露后,自然而然就牵扯出一大堆花花绿绿的风流事。

  大凡贪官,无一例外都有一本风流史。但是,由于落马贪官的文化修养、社会地位、为人处世之不同,他们的 风流史也不尽相同。因此,天下贪官总相似,女人怀里分高低。

  何闽旭任安徽省池洲地委书记时,认识了当地的一个饭店女老板,几次接触后,何书记被女老板的万种风情所 吸引,遂成了该女的闺中密友。在何书记的提携下,女老板平步青云当上了市人大代表和市餐饮业协 会的副主席。

  女老板为了报答何闽旭的知遇之恩,便将自已如花似玉的表妹介绍给何书记当二奶。让何闽旭意想不到的是, 从此之后,女老板成了这个父腹俚钠ぬ蹩停灰行枨螅习寰突崃⒙硭偷健?00年夏天,女老板送的几个 俄罗斯女孩让何闽旭大开了眼界。

  虽然何闽旭中国二奶之多令人惊讶,可他毕竟是安徽落后地区的市委书记,与外国女人打交道的机会并不多。 看到眼前的五个俄罗斯美女,何闽旭打心眼里感到高兴。尽管与这五个女人同床共枕时语言有障碍,可床上之欢是 无国界的,更何况女人的叫床声是通用的世界语。

  事后查明,女老板送给何闽旭的女人根本就不是俄罗斯小姐,而是我国少数民族地区的女孩。可以说,一个堂 堂的市委书记被人开涮了。让何书记恼火的是,和这五个假俄罗斯小姐的一夜之欢,让他付出了五万人民币的代价 。为了不丢中国官员的脸,何闽旭是相当大方的。

  从何闽旭的简历上看,他也是大学学历,应该算是有知识有文化的行政官员。因此,有人质疑,与这五个假俄 罗斯小姐共眠时,他就听不出这些女孩子说是中国话还是外国话?就算何书记听不懂俄罗斯语,但依他的文化水平 ,也能够听出个大概,可为什么就被骗了呢?

  是色令智昏,还是文化程度真的很低?如果是色令智昏那就算了,因为人毕竟是凡夫俗子,在女人堆里谁都有 弱智的时候。可如果是因为文化程度低而受骗,那就有些贻笑大方了。人们都知道,我国干部队伍的四化标准早在 上个世纪八十年代就制定了,几十年来,干部队伍的文化素质已大为提高,建国初期那些讲话时笑话百出的工农干 部已经不复存在了,可何闽旭为什么就被骗了呢?

  何闽旭玩洋妞被骗虽然是个不足挂齿的小事,可这件事所反映出的问题不能不令我们深思。在实现社会现代化 的今天,个别领导干部的文化水平如此之低,肯定胜任不了自已的本质工作。连俄罗斯语和中国少数民族语言都分 不清的人当上了副省长,确确实实是在拷问我们的用人机制。

来源:http://www.backchina.com/news/2006-11-11/107833.html
贪官玩女人出洋相 错把少数民族姑娘当俄罗斯美女

An Uyghur
11-11-06, 16:53
Thanks for your interest in Uyghurs.
But , let you know , what Uyghur wants is full independence from china. Nothing less. Because chinese is not russian, english and Turk. You see these nations or people have better hearts, respect human dignity and democracy.
China and chinese people, maybe after 100-1000 years they may understand human dignity, but before the arrival that time,they will never stop assaulting, killing, maiming other ethnicities they conquered.
So our chinese friend, your heart maybe good, but believing you is tentamount to committing suicide.
You see, history repeats itself , how many ancient empires still exists today?
so does chinese empire!

Unregistered
11-11-06, 19:31
Thanks for your interest in Uyghurs.
But , let you know , what Uyghur wants is full independence from china. Nothing less. Because chinese is not russian, english and Turk. You see these nations or people have better hearts, respect human dignity and democracy.
China and chinese people, maybe after 100-1000 years they may understand human dignity, but before the arrival that time,they will never stop assaulting, killing, maiming other ethnicities they conquered.
So our chinese friend, your heart maybe good, but believing you is tentamount to committing suicide.
You see, history repeats itself , how many ancient empires still exists today?
so does chinese empire!


This is just stupid. Russians, English and Turks have better hearts? I understand that you hate Chinese, but this statement is pure stupidity.

You think the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens, Ukrainians, Latvians, etc. etc. love the Russians?

And the English? How many lies are they guilty of? How many countries have they destroyed? You forget they were the ones who enslaved Africans and brought them to the US?

And the Turks? They committed genocide on the Armenians and killed 1.5 million in WWI, yes, I am sure the Armenians will agree that they are good hearted people unlike the Chinese.

I'm not saying China is an angel or so much better than these countries, but all the countries you mentioned are all guilty of major crimes to humanity. Only an idiot would say these are good people and Chinese are bad. Ridiculous.

Unregistered
11-11-06, 19:34
Who are you to be eligibled for dialogue? Where is your table to sit down for dialogue? I have tow cents for you anyway.


No, I'm not anybody of power or anything. You don't have to waste your time with me. I was trying to have some civilized conversation, but of course, you guys think all Han Chinese are demons. So what's the use.

Anyways, if I was Uighur, I may probably want independence too. But it's not going to happen.

Unregistered
11-11-06, 19:36
hey xitay, you know what is hate?

your goverment and ambasy hate me for not thing, not reason. why? because I know the true, because I am talking about the true. all the hate comes from your goverment.

sen Uyghurche yazghine, sen bilen koz qarishimizni almashturup baqayli.


Yeah, I understand, that's why I'm against the policies of the Chinese govt. in Xinjiang.

Hey, if it was up to me, I'd force the Han Chinese who live there to learn Uighur and attend the same schools as the Uighurs.

Unregistered
11-11-06, 19:45
Thanks for your interest in Uyghurs.
But , let you know , what Uyghur wants is full independence from china. Nothing less. Because chinese is not russian, english and Turk. You see these nations or people have better hearts, respect human dignity and democracy.
China and chinese people, maybe after 100-1000 years they may understand human dignity, but before the arrival that time,they will never stop assaulting, killing, maiming other ethnicities they conquered.
So our chinese friend, your heart maybe good, but believing you is tentamount to committing suicide.
You see, history repeats itself , how many ancient empires still exists today?
so does chinese empire!
Let me add another thing.

You say that these countries know how to respect humanity while China doesn't.

Right now, Russia is killing far more Moslems than China is. Russia has been destroying Chechnya for the past decade, how many tens of thousands has died? Where are they respecting humanity there?

As for Britain, right now their soldiers are shooting and raping Iraqis. Just like what they did before to Iraq and half of the world's countries. Are they respecting human rights?

Look, there is no one in their right mind who would deny that China needs to clean up its human rights. It's not only Uighurs that suffer, but Han Chinese are routinely harrassed and beaten for standing up to the govt. China's entire govt. needs to change. But China's not the only country with serious issues regarding respect for humanity. Turkey still wont' even acknowledge they killed 1.5 million Armenians, that was the first major genocide of the 20th century.

oguzhan
11-11-06, 19:57
I was trying to have some civilized conversation
[/QUOTE]

Brother this forum is exactly meant for this kind of communication.

First of all I congratulate you for your courage and bravery;

it is not in our hands to choose our parents/nor the geographical location
where we should be born and grown up...

God has created everybody and everything else on this planet
and the universe.

I would recommend you to read Mevlana Jalaleddin Rumi,

a Sufi thinker and poet whose works have been translated into English;

at least he is more tolerant in his approach to human condition.


Then as much as you can try reading materials on Uyghur literature,
history and culture.

If I were you I would keep political opinions about this delicate situation to myself.

We may never know what God has in plan for the future of mankind,
life is full of surprises.

Uyghurs and Han people have been in close relations throughout history,

I think you are OK,because you want to know and learn,
there is no harm in that.

Prophet Muhammed is believed to have said that if knowledge was in China
to attain then moslems should travel as far.

I am an Uyghur born in Turkey,
I have a different view on life matters,

one cannot change the world,
but one can try to change oneself
and adapt to the conditions

and try to be a decent and ethically acceptable human being.

This could be an internationally valid standard for co-existence.


If you have views with a different insight to what we are used to see,

I am sure there are people out there who would give an ear.


Global understanding is through globally friendly relations,

come back to this forum,
when you have something worthwhile to say or to ask,

or there are other Uyghur websites with enlightening Uyghur intellect.

cordially,

oguzhan

An Uyghur
11-11-06, 20:29
Oghuzhan,
you are such a spineless creature. Do not talk about God here, Do you know how many millions of Uyghurs lost their lives?.
In manchu invasion we lost at least one million people. since then never stopped killing. In this time, our population is not that different fom used to be much smaller, less famous kazaks, where are these people?

Who is not tolerant? How much tolerance you want, tolarate chinese until they continue their genocide and only your kind left by your chinese brother? See they kill you in the end and rape your sister. Or you think you are in Turkey so you are different.That is what they want.

Even this guy in this forum maybe a good person , but his compatriots are not. you know that.

Turks controlled europe and part of asia close to 1000 years, If they wanted , they had the power to destroy so many, but they did not . today I am still seeing a nation call Armenia.

You are right , russians killingchechens, but
do they do kill babies by forceful abortion? Do they estublish fake autonomous regions. Do they destroy other cultures with mass gov. sponsored migration.
Do they suppress religion like chinese?
Did not they offer federation to other ethnicities?

do not talk to about old time, talk about now.







I was trying to have some civilized conversation


Brother this forum is exactly meant for this kind of communication.

First of all I congratulate you for your courage and bravery;

it is not in our hands to choose our parents/nor the geographical location
where we should be born and grown up...

God has created everybody and everything else on this planet
and the universe.

I would recommend you to read Mevlana Jalaleddin Rumi,

a Sufi thinker and poet whose works have been translated into English;

at least he is more tolerant in his approach to human condition.


Then as much as you can try reading materials on Uyghur literature,
history and culture.

If I were you I would keep political opinions about this delicate situation to myself.

We may never know what God has in plan for the future of mankind,
life is full of surprises.

Uyghurs and Han people have been in close relations throughout history,

I think you are OK,because you want to know and learn,
there is no harm in that.

Prophet Muhammed is believed to have said that if knowledge was in China
to attain then moslems should travel as far.

I am an Uyghur born in Turkey,
I have a different view on life matters,

one cannot change the world,
but one can try to change oneself
and adapt to the conditions

and try to be a decent and ethically acceptable human being.

This could be an internationally valid standard for co-existence.


If you have views with a different insight to what we are used to see,

I am sure there are people out there who would give an ear.


Global understanding is through globally friendly relations,

come back to this forum,
when you have something worthwhile to say or to ask,

or there are other Uyghur websites with enlightening Uyghur intellect.

cordially,

oguzhan[/QUOTE]

Unregistered
11-11-06, 21:31
I do not think Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens love Russians, but they do not hate them as the minorities do the Chinese either. Because while the Russians also inflicted some injustice on them, they did not discriminate them based on nationality as the Chinese do. The Russians did things based on Socialist ideology, not Russian nationalism. The Russians were considered better enforcers of Socialist ideology, therefore given more prominant positions in minority regions, which in turn caused the afore mentioned injustices. But the injustice in East Turkistan has nothing to do with any ideology, it is motivated by pure nationalism. Imagine a Tibet or Uyghur president in China? In a billion years, maybe. But, Stalin was a minority (Georgian) among many high level non-Russian Soviet officials with real power.
Minorities in Soviet Union probably did not like the Russians, but they did not hate them either. There was and still is certain level of mutual interest and respect between them. That is why there has been no ethnic conflict in those now independent soviet republics. An Uyghur singer, Muratov, is a pop icon not only in Russia but in the whole former Soviet block regions. He surely does not look like Russian, but he is loved celebrity in Russian and other countries. Imagine if that could happen in China to an Uyghur. Again, maybe in a million years. China maybe a economic powerhouse now, but it takes at least decades if not centuries before the Chinese reaches to the same cultural level of the Russians. The Chinese are very nationlistic in nature. You can see that even in America. They do not melt that easily in this big pot even though they came here volunteerily.
China wants to be and claims to be a multi-ethnic nation, but as long as the Chinese ultra-nationlism exits from the bottom to the top, it will never succeed to be a multi-ethnic super power. China has to learn to respect itself yet before it earns the respect of its minories and the world.
China will never be like America or even the former Soviet Union in terms of the respect it commands. America is not perfect, but it behaves as a super power. Getting respect for your money is not the same thing as getting respect for who you are.

[QUOTE=Unregistered]This is just stupid. Russians, English and Turks have better hearts? I understand that you hate Chinese, but this statement is pure stupidity.

You think the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens, Ukrainians, Latvians, etc. etc. love the Russians? ]

Unregistered
12-11-06, 04:45
[QUOTE=An Uyghur]Oghuzhan,
you are such a spineless creature.


Bad words belong to their owner,

whoever makes the mistake of using them.

Your vocabulary in English is quite shallow ,

and proper usage of accumulated knowledge is relative to intellect.

It must have slipped from your memory
that we are all God's creation,
thus CREATURES;

(Turks love the creatures because of the Creator !)

but it is a long and winding road to achieve the status of being a

HUMAN BEING !

This is where my road takes a sharp turn,

because all my messages on the internet are written in a courteous,

polite and ethically acceptable manner

to address humanbeings ,

but you deny yourself my respect to fellowbeings,

an Uyghur who is not civilized (up until now)
is not a representable Uyghur to the world community.


Nobody has any right to pollute anywhere,especially an international forum like this one,

read again the nettiquette !!! rules

(ESTEEMED ADMIN ; is there any Uyghur version ?
many people seem to be unaware that there are some rules
in internet communication as to how to word their messages
and address one another)

It is very damaging to the Uyghur image how base and thoughtless
they seem to react to other people's ideas.

IT IS NOT A VERY GOOD IDEA , BUT IF PEOPLE MISBEHAVE,

TO SAVE THE FACE OF THIS FORUM

THEY MIGHT NEED INTERVENTION OF A MODERATOR.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 09:47
i lkie to start with che le ma?
that is mean hello at 50's in china
Law wang Have you read thousand and one night
In that book we can find lots of things such as fling carpet, metal shark ,
They were all impossible at that time, but look at now you can see them everywhere ,
Airplane just like the fling carpet, ships are just like metal shark
I mean lots of nice things were impossible for the beginning but if the people do not lost they are hope it is going to become reality ,
You can use same logic for us and see it .
That is reality , now china one of the strong power in the world, but who can say it is going to be,
Yes I agree we are week now but who can say we are not change in future ,
I remember in story of the three king dome has an old saying fen jiu bi he ,he jiu bi fen
This is a Chinese idiom ,














No, I'm not anybody of power or anything. You don't have to waste your time with me. I was trying to have some civilized conversation, but of course, you guys think all Han Chinese are demons. So what's the use.

Anyways, if I was Uighur, I may probably want independence too. But it's not going to happen.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 13:05
Well, I agree that nationalism in China has sometimes become a big problem.

However, I don't agree that Russia is much better. Anti-Russian sentiment varies from different minorities. In China, probably the most anti-Chinese sentiment is from the Uyghur minority, then second is maybe the Tibetan. But many of the other minorities have extremely good relations with the Han. In the ex-Soviet Union, some minorities such as Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians have extremely anti-Russian feelings, then followed by Ukrainians, etc.

Also, I disagree that Russia treats Chechens better than China treats Uighurs. I think it's quite evident from the news how many tens of thousands have been killed in Chechnya. Your mention of the forced abortions, I must remind you that the Chinese govt. conducts these same policies on Hans, not only on Uighurs. In fact, Uighurs and other minorities are allowed more than one child, unlike Hans. But anyways, I don't want to get into that.

Chinese nationalism is a problem. But I don't think the comparison with Stalin is correct. Stalin is Georgian, culturally, he was very Russianized. China has had many non-Han rulers from the Mongols to the Manchus. The founder of the Tang Dynasty, Li Shimin's family were Sinicized Turks from the area between Gansu and Xinjiang. Therefore, it is possible to not be Han and be the ruler of China. However, one has to be rather Sinicized. But this is the case with all countries. Can one be president of the US and not be Americanized? Have we ever seen a non-White president? Can one be leader of Russia and not be Russified?

I think the major problem with China after the economic reforms of 1978 is the abandonment of a lot of socialist principles and this caused the rise of Han Chauvinism, which affects the relations between Hans and Uighurs, especially when it comes to the private economy. Even though the general living standard of the Uighurs have improved since the reform period, they have become increasingly economically marginalized in the major industries of Xinjiang. This is a very negative development and has been very harmful. The Chinese govt.'s attitude is not helpful either, because instead of allowing peaceful methods to protest, it simply pushes its propaganda and agenda to the Uighurs through political repression.

Even though China's govt. is not democratic to all, including Hans and all minorities. Minorities that suffer from Han Chauvinism and economic/political marginalization makes the repression double. This situation must change. China can only dream of being a real superpower without the rule of law and democratic process. A democratic system must be set up where minorities can protect their rights and gain more political/economic power, but another danger of a more democratic system is the further rise of Han Chauvinism, which must be contained.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 13:10
i lkie to start with che le ma?
that is mean hello at 50's in china
Law wang Have you read thousand and one night
In that book we can find lots of things such as fling carpet, metal shark ,
They were all impossible at that time, but look at now you can see them everywhere ,
Airplane just like the fling carpet, ships are just like metal shark
I mean lots of nice things were impossible for the beginning but if the people do not lost they are hope it is going to become reality ,
You can use same logic for us and see it .
That is reality , now china one of the strong power in the world, but who can say it is going to be,
Yes I agree we are week now but who can say we are not change in future ,
I remember in story of the three king dome has an old saying fen jiu bi he ,he jiu bi fen
This is a Chinese idiom ,

I understand what you are saying. Anyways, the momentum right now is towards China being a major power for many decades to come.

But I don't agree that China will always remain the same kind of political system that it is now. It cannot be. Because no real superpower with a modern economy can continue with such a rigid and authoritarian political system. China has to eventually adopt democracy.

I hope that if in the future China has democracy, Uighurs can teach their own history and real identity, and also has more real power in the state owned industries.

Uighurs are very good businessmen, all people know that. I remember a Han friend in Xinjiang who always told me that Zuo shengyi jiushi Weizu de tiancai. The god-given talent of the Uighurs is doing business. He even told me that the Hans cannot even compare. So I think amongst all the minorities in China, it seems that the Uighur and the Hui Moslems are the most businesslike, they need to control more of the real economic power in Xinjiang or the hatred and resentment will only grow.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 13:57
Uighurs are very good businessmen, all people know that. I remember a Han friend in Xinjiang who always told me that Zuo shengyi jiushi Weizu de tiancai. The god-given talent of the Uighurs is doing business. He even told me that the Hans cannot even compare. So I think amongst all the minorities in China, it seems that the Uighur and the Hui Moslems are the most businesslike, they need to control more of the real economic power in Xinjiang or the hatred and resentment will only grow.
hey xitay,

who are you to be discuss about my country? I don't know. but I understand that, you are trying to get some information from us. maybe you are chinese, also maybe not....

Not all Uyghurs are like do bussiness or can do bussiness. we also have like Erkin Sidick, biggest Dr.'s. Soo, don't think all Uyghurs are bussinessman.

when I have been in pekin, like you some one chinese told me kaoyangrouchuer. I am very angry, because I am not kaoyangrouchuer. soo, talk in this web site very accurately, ok?

Actually democracy is better than dictator regime and this is fact. but I don't think that, your democracy can be real democracy. because you cannot control country, with out dictator regime.

but I need only indepedence country. maybe who born in East Turkistan, that some chinese maybe live with us, but I need only indepedence East Turkistan.

try understand My English.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 14:47
Well, I agree that nationalism in China has sometimes become a big problem.

However, I don't agree that Russia is much better. Anti-Russian sentiment varies from different minorities. In China, probably the most anti-Chinese sentiment is from the Uyghur minority, then second is maybe the Tibetan. But many of the other minorities have extremely good relations with the Han. In the ex-Soviet Union, some minorities such as Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians have extremely anti-Russian feelings, then followed by Ukrainians, etc.

Also, I disagree that Russia treats Chechens better than China treats Uighurs. I think it's quite evident from the news how many tens of thousands have been killed in Chechnya. Your mention of the forced abortions, I must remind you that the Chinese govt. conducts these same policies on Hans, not only on Uighurs. In fact, Uighurs and other minorities are allowed more than one child, unlike Hans. But anyways, I don't want to get into that.

Chinese nationalism is a problem. But I don't think the comparison with Stalin is correct. Stalin is Georgian, culturally, he was very Russianized. China has had many non-Han rulers from the Mongols to the Manchus. The founder of the Tang Dynasty, Li Shimin's family were Sinicized Turks from the area between Gansu and Xinjiang. Therefore, it is possible to not be Han and be the ruler of China. However, one has to be rather Sinicized. But this is the case with all countries. Can one be president of the US and not be Americanized? Have we ever seen a non-White president? Can one be leader of Russia and not be Russified?

I think the major problem with China after the economic reforms of 1978 is the abandonment of a lot of socialist principles and this caused the rise of Han Chauvinism, which affects the relations between Hans and Uighurs, especially when it comes to the private economy. Even though the general living standard of the Uighurs have improved since the reform period, they have become increasingly economically marginalized in the major industries of Xinjiang. This is a very negative development and has been very harmful. The Chinese govt.'s attitude is not helpful either, because instead of allowing peaceful methods to protest, it simply pushes its propaganda and agenda to the Uighurs through political repression.

Even though China's govt. is not democratic to all, including Hans and all minorities. Minorities that suffer from Han Chauvinism and economic/political marginalization makes the repression double. This situation must change. China can only dream of being a real superpower without the rule of law and democratic process. A democratic system must be set up where minorities can protect their rights and gain more political/economic power, but another danger of a more democratic system is the further rise of Han Chauvinism, which must be contained.

wey hittay, you already have very very advantageous political skills for your han chauvinism future.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 15:06
Russia at least is respecting the right of Chechens to determine their political future.
now Chechens can elect their own leaders, have their own constitutions and in case of need, can sit down with Russian government for talks with their dignity.

Russia also do not deny that there is Chechen problem there.
Russia never claims that "Chechens is part of Russia since ancient time".

there are fundamental difference between Russia and China.

Russia has abondened its colonialism long ago by letting go of nations from its iron fists. therefore Kazaks, Uzbeks.......... are independent nations today.
contrary, China is not only holding firm on its emperialist agenda, but also expanding its colonialism to everywhere.

China has border problems and disputes with all the neighboring nations.
China wants unsettled borders for future claim.

China's current policy is backed by majority of chinese people, not only at home but also abroad.

it is totally different nature of understanding.

Chinese chauvanism is the blood of every chinese.

China has to look at the mirror first,recognize their evil intention approaching Uyghurs, then there will be rationale ground for dialogue.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 15:56
you are not a han , wich is living us ,i have very stong feeling
you are right now in china, and sitting in the office with your uniform,
and this is mybe your poeple's new tactics
becuase you are very good for speak with us,but you have very huge mistake
we are not that kind of poeple wich are you used to be control.























I understand what you are saying. Anyways, the momentum right now is towards China being a major power for many decades to come.

But I don't agree that China will always remain the same kind of political system that it is now. It cannot be. Because no real superpower with a modern economy can continue with such a rigid and authoritarian political system. China has to eventually adopt democracy.

I hope that if in the future China has democracy, Uighurs can teach their own history and real identity, and also has more real power in the state owned industries.

Uighurs are very good businessmen, all people know that. I remember a Han friend in Xinjiang who always told me that Zuo shengyi jiushi Weizu de tiancai. The god-given talent of the Uighurs is doing business. He even told me that the Hans cannot even compare. So I think amongst all the minorities in China, it seems that the Uighur and the Hui Moslems are the most businesslike, they need to control more of the real economic power in Xinjiang or the hatred and resentment will only grow.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 18:49
If you hate english, why you were born in US ? Why your parents come there before ?


This is just stupid. Russians, English and Turks have better hearts? I understand that you hate Chinese, but this statement is pure stupidity.

You think the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens, Ukrainians, Latvians, etc. etc. love the Russians?

And the English? How many lies are they guilty of? How many countries have they destroyed? You forget they were the ones who enslaved Africans and brought them to the US?

And the Turks? They committed genocide on the Armenians and killed 1.5 million in WWI, yes, I am sure the Armenians will agree that they are good hearted people unlike the Chinese.

I'm not saying China is an angel or so much better than these countries, but all the countries you mentioned are all guilty of major crimes to humanity. Only an idiot would say these are good people and Chinese are bad. Ridiculous.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 18:53
Hey oghuzhan,

you are not able to talk on the behalf of Uyghurs.
You better leave this form.

Regretly

Uyghuristani



I was trying to have some civilized conversation


Brother this forum is exactly meant for this kind of communication.

First of all I congratulate you for your courage and bravery;

it is not in our hands to choose our parents/nor the geographical location
where we should be born and grown up...

God has created everybody and everything else on this planet
and the universe.

I would recommend you to read Mevlana Jalaleddin Rumi,

a Sufi thinker and poet whose works have been translated into English;

at least he is more tolerant in his approach to human condition.


Then as much as you can try reading materials on Uyghur literature,
history and culture.

If I were you I would keep political opinions about this delicate situation to myself.

We may never know what God has in plan for the future of mankind,
life is full of surprises.

Uyghurs and Han people have been in close relations throughout history,

I think you are OK,because you want to know and learn,
there is no harm in that.

Prophet Muhammed is believed to have said that if knowledge was in China
to attain then moslems should travel as far.

I am an Uyghur born in Turkey,
I have a different view on life matters,

one cannot change the world,
but one can try to change oneself
and adapt to the conditions

and try to be a decent and ethically acceptable human being.

This could be an internationally valid standard for co-existence.


If you have views with a different insight to what we are used to see,

I am sure there are people out there who would give an ear.


Global understanding is through globally friendly relations,

come back to this forum,
when you have something worthwhile to say or to ask,

or there are other Uyghur websites with enlightening Uyghur intellect.

cordially,

oguzhan[/QUOTE]

Unregistered
12-11-06, 20:16
Well, as I have been to Xinjiang before, specifically Urumqi, Turfan, Kashgar. I can say that about half of the information from this site is true, about half is inaccurate or taken out of context. What is correct is that the religion is severely controlled. Those under 18 cannot attend Mosque regularly or go to Islamic schools. What is also correct is that many private employers discriminate against Uighurs. Also, there are more Han moving into Xinjiang, though most of this is not because of the government but because of economic opportunities.

What I find that is not accurate is the idea that the Uighur language is being wiped out. The schools in Uighur areas teach in Uighur, only when they get to a higher level do they start teaching Mandarin. That's one major reason why many employers discriminate against Uighurs, because their Mandarin is poor. Also, the economic growth in China has also benefitted Uighurs as the standard of life amongst Uighurs is improving. In the large cities of Xinjiang, people can see wealthy Uighurs who drive nice cars, etc. Also, about the birth control, I think most people would know that that policy does not only apply to Uighurs but to the Hans, in fact, it is far more stringent for Hans than to Uighurs.

Well, anyways, for those that think I am a spy from China, you can check my IP address, I am definitely in the US. For the person who asked why my parents came to the US, simple, for economic opportunity. What does that have to do with the fact that the English did do terrible things? Nothing, these facts are recorded in history.

Other than my own experiences, there is not much I can contribute to this site. I will just read and learn from the comments here. I will say that I fully support protecting the human rights and political expression of Uighurs and their political autonomy. I also support the protection of Uighur culture, I think assimilation into Han culture would be a sad outcome. As for independence, I can understand why many Uighurs here would like independence, but I think as the situation dictates, it's not realistic. It's easier for Uighurs in other countries to say they support independence, however, for Uighurs in Xinjiang who depend on China's economic growth and market for improvements in their livelihoods, there are more mixed interests.

An Uyghur
12-11-06, 21:20
I am sorry to tell you, you can not understand us or you pretend. It is obvious, You are a supporter of chinese terrorists in East Turkistan. You do not give a damn for the suffering of our people.
In my observation, birth control for Uyghur is very strict in East Turkistan. It is a crime against humanity. If chinese conducted that crime for their own people , it is still a crime , if you do not think so , it is your business.

Everbody knows about government sponsored chinese migration to our homeland. If you do not know, just say do not know. If you need evidence, search by yourself, or listin to previous US government hearings.

Seeing couple wealthy Uyghurs mean nothing, do not you know we have more rich people before chinese invasion?!. Uyghur as leading turkic nation, we have splendid history. Whatever you say, we are at the lowest point in everything.
Turkistan is our land , our forefathers are buried there. We do not give you.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 22:03
First off, I never said I supported birth control policies for Uighurs. The Uighur population is very small compared to the Hans, I don't think there should be any birth control for Uighurs. I don't even think the one-child policy is necessary for the rest of China right now either.

And you're right, I don't know how the world looks from your angle. That's why I said I will spend more time reading and learning.

However, as I am an honest and straightforward person, I will say what I think is correct and what is not. Also, I think practicality is more important than idealism.

Unregistered
12-11-06, 22:54
If you want to know the minority people in russia like old russia federation time, then you will know that they like it before or now.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 08:21
I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?
Waht do you think if you know the situation of Uyghurs?
What did the Chinese want when Japan invaded China?
Please ask the question from yourself before you ask someone else.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 08:33
First of all, NO regime can be world first power.
As you think now, I thought if China devolopes it might be benificial for Uyghurs too. But in the realtiy it is not the case. The more china devolopes the more oppression Uyghurs are getting. China is using it's economical power to dismiss the minorities within china and outside china. The shanghai agreement sighned by central asian countries , Russia and China is one of the examle of China's using it's economical influence to dismiss Uyghurs from the world. I felt it myself that is why I flee China. Please forget it. Do not expect that kind of beatufull dream from the regime. It has been 51 years by now. We Uyghurs have seen enough of the Chinese.If an Uyghur still expects that kind of legendary from the China then he or she has serious problem in the brain.
Birth control: China does not have right to occupy a country and ordering them how many children they can have.
From the education prospect: How many percent of the University students are chinese how many are Uyghurs? In Uyghur's autonomous region.
What was the population of the Chinese before 1955, and what is it now?
Uyghurs in Eastern Turkistan or so called Uyghur autonomous region would never tell you the truth if you have a chinese face. That kind of faces have already lost their reputation for Minorites in China.
Thankyou

Unregistered
13-11-06, 10:31
I do not think Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens love Russians, but they do not hate them as the minorities do the Chinese either. Because while the Russians also inflicted some injustice on them, they did not discriminate them based on nationality as the Chinese do. The Russians did things based on Socialist ideology, not Russian nationalism. The Russians were considered better enforcers of Socialist ideology, therefore given more prominant positions in minority regions, which in turn caused the afore mentioned injustices. But the injustice in East Turkistan has nothing to do with any ideology, it is motivated by pure nationalism. Imagine a Tibet or Uyghur president in China? In a billion years, maybe. But, Stalin was a minority (Georgian) among many high level non-Russian Soviet officials with real power.
Minorities in Soviet Union probably did not like the Russians, but they did not hate them either. There was and still is certain level of mutual interest and respect between them. That is why there has been no ethnic conflict in those now independent soviet republics. An Uyghur singer, Muratov, is a pop icon not only in Russia but in the whole former Soviet block regions. He surely does not look like Russian, but he is loved celebrity in Russian and other countries. Imagine if that could happen in China to an Uyghur. Again, maybe in a million years. China maybe a economic powerhouse now, but it takes at least decades if not centuries before the Chinese reaches to the same cultural level of the Russians. The Chinese are very nationlistic in nature. You can see that even in America. They do not melt that easily in this big pot even though they came here volunteerily.
China wants to be and claims to be a multi-ethnic nation, but as long as the Chinese ultra-nationlism exits from the bottom to the top, it will never succeed to be a multi-ethnic super power. China has to learn to respect itself yet before it earns the respect of its minories and the world.
China will never be like America or even the former Soviet Union in terms of the respect it commands. America is not perfect, but it behaves as a super power. Getting respect for your money is not the same thing as getting respect for who you are.

[QUOTE=Unregistered]This is just stupid. Russians, English and Turks have better hearts? I understand that you hate Chinese, but this statement is pure stupidity.

You think the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens, Ukrainians, Latvians, etc. etc. love the Russians? ]

Truely Chinese is the most chauvinistic and nepotistic people of them all,
they will never give breeding space for Uyghurs
but Uyghurs one day must and will get it for themselves
I believe chinese can even eat human flesh,they are so brutal and inhumane.
they can never be a Russia or America.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 11:01
Let me add another thing.

You say that these countries know how to respect humanity while China doesn't.

Right now, Russia is killing far more Moslems than China is. Russia has been destroying Chechnya for the past decade, how many tens of thousands has died? Where are they respecting humanity there?

As for Britain, right now their soldiers are shooting and raping Iraqis. Just like what they did before to Iraq and half of the world's countries. Are they respecting human rights?

Look, there is no one in their right mind who would deny that China needs to clean up its human rights. It's not only Uighurs that suffer, but Han Chinese are routinely harrassed and beaten for standing up to the govt. China's entire govt. needs to change. But China's not the only country with serious issues regarding respect for humanity. Turkey still wont' even acknowledge they killed 1.5 million Armenians, that was the first major genocide of the 20th century.

Turk's deported Armenians because they started to depopulate Turks (by wholesale sloughtering) and other
muslims in areas where all had been living peacefully..
Turks reciprocated and killed maybe more than the Armenians did.
but Armenians were provoked and given promises by russian and french emperialism and in the end they had to retrieve to their own original place now.
Look at chinese they occupied ancestral homeland of Uyghur Turks
they were minority in East Turkistan but now they are majority
Armenians had never been majority in eastern Anatolia
so Turkish and Chinese cases are totaly different.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 11:14
I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?
Waht do you think if you know the situation of Uyghurs?
What did the Chinese want when Japan invaded China?
Please ask the question from yourself before you ask someone else.

What do you mean?
don't expect us asking permission to f*** chinese
we will get the freedom we will prevail
do you think you can confuse and disorientate us from our goal,
no way we will give up freedom!

Unregistered
13-11-06, 11:49
I don't agree that China's economic development is necessarily bad for Uighurs. For a temporary time, yes. But I think it will eventually lead to democracy and human rights, which will benefit everybody. Also, now Xinjiang is a big economic center in Central Asia, there are all kinds of Central Asians going there for business, this will reinforce the Uighur identity and establish more links with other Central Asian Turks and Moslems.

Second, just because you hate China, which I can understand, please do not lie about Russia and Turkey. As much as you would like to portray Russia as an angel, we all know its long history of conquering peoples. The only reason why the Central Asian countries are independent is because the Soviet Union collapsed, and its central government became weak. Also, I think the past ten years of Russia destroying Chechnya is already proof enough that it will fight a bitter war before losing more territory.

Also, Turkey only transferred the Armenians? That is a Turkish lie. Everyone knows that 1.5 million Armenians were killed. Eastern Anatolia was part of the Armenian homeland, they were transferred and marched to death through the Syrian desert. If 1.5 million Armenians were transferred, where are they now?? Why are they not in Syria or Jordan?

Unregistered
13-11-06, 11:51
Also, another thing about Turkey. For many decades, they are repressing the Kurds, even to this day. Before the Kurds were only designated as "mountain Turks", they were not even recognized. Their language was banned and their culture was destroyed. But I guess to you, Turkey is still a great democracy.

Just because you are a Turkic people and you suffer no discrimination in Turkey, please do not lie about Turkey being a great respector of human rights.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 13:26
Bundaq sahtakar hitaygha jawap birimen dep nime aware bolisler tordaxlar.
Bizning hich bir ixenchimizge irixalmighan hitay, bundin kiyinmu xundaq qaliweridu.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 16:36
No, I'm not anybody of power or anything. You don't have to waste your time with me. I was trying to have some civilized conversation, but of course, you guys think all Han Chinese are demons. So what's the use.

Anyways, if I was Uighur, I may probably want independence too. But it's not going to happen.


Wrong, we will have independence, today and if not tommarow. Haven't you heard the good always wins.
NOw, Mr. Chinese, your communist friends invaded our country, and looks like your trying to invade this site. Well, you can't. So, do us a favor and remove your silly ideas elsewhere.

we would expect this from the like of you.
What is it you fear most- the Uighurs independance? Like I already said God willing we will have independance, and the Chinese will pay for their terror,if not in this life in the next. God does not leave his creations unjudged. When your kind burns in fire on earth or hell you will now we have won, won the idependance you fear for us to have.
NOw get the hell out of here.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 16:45
oh, and tell your no good communist/terroist chinese government to stop trying to put up stupid comments ideas, we're not stupid, they are so pathetic they pur up silly things to destract us from the truth, it's not like we can't figure out you all work for the chinese government. Freedom, freedom, freedom freedom for Eastern Turkistan. Long live my beloved land, long live Eastern Turkistan, may God always watch over the Uighurs.


Remeber we are not stupid so take my advise and politely leavvvvvvvvvvve.

Unregistered
13-11-06, 16:49
Hi, my handle is obtuse_edge, I am a new member.

Yakshimusiz. I am Han Chinese, but grew up in the US, so I am Chinese American. I have been to Xinjiang, in fact, I have studied a lot about Uighurs, Central Asia and Islam. I often return back to China to travel or visit relatives.

I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?

I agree with you that China needs to dramatically change its human rights record. No matter how many benefits the state gives to minorities, without political expression and the freedom to express your feelings in a safe manner, there is no dignity. Actually, this goes for all Chinese citizens, but in Xinjiang, there is extra attention paid to the Uighurs. China's policy is counteractive, nothing can resolve the anger without freedom of expression and honest discussion, instead of just repeating the same tired Communist propaganda. Some Han Chinese like to point out that the govt. gives preferential policies to minorities based on college admission, birth control, etc. I think that these kind of policies can never make up for political repression and the inability to define your own culture on your own terms. I often thought that if I was Uighur, I would be among the most militant too.

As for independence, I don't think that's even a possibility. China will never allow Xinjiang to become an independent nation, it is too valuable. Also, it's not necessarily in the economic interests of Uighurs to become independent as well, China will become the world's superpower in twenty years, Uighurs have access to the future's largest economic power. Perhaps in the future when China becomes a democracy, Uighurs can form political lobby groups that may have some influence on China's foreign policy, in that vein, Uighurs might become one of the world's most influential Moslem groups as it may have influence in the world's superpower.

Anyways, those are my ideas. Feel free to challenge, criticize or agree. Thank you. Ramat Sizge!STOP TRYING TO GET UIGHURS TO FIGHT ONE ANOTHER, YOU ARE THE SATAN HIMSELF, BUT THEY HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN ARGUE ABOUT THE LIKES OF YOU.

RoyalBlood
13-11-06, 19:41
Hey Hitay,

This is "China devolopes it might be benificial for Uyghurs too. "only your American style, Chinese dream! Chinese never ever gave any benefit for others, especially as Chinese see 'Alien people' like us - Uyghurs... This is not happened since Chinese started to robb our wealth from ET, and this will never ever happen, as long as the "starving Chinese" on top of us...Please forgive me if I am being extremely harsh on Chinese character - but this is the word from a Chinese: I remember as I grown up with Chinese in Shanghai, an intellectual Chinese told me that "I believe we - the Chinese born to learn only 'eat' - eat whatever we see, whatever we catch; steal others belongings with whatever way, whenever we can. We don't have the manners, moral, royal looking character (gaoya qizhi) as yours have, we don't have the confidence, hope, happiness, selfrespect and selfworth feeling as you do.....I regret that we were born to be slaves of our self desire - which is blindly eat, drink, ruthless torture of other and ourselves .... the terrible thing is sometimes I can feel that we don't even know how to "smile" properly...."

Unregistered
13-11-06, 21:00
I know you from the 90's even though you try to show different faces each time. Did not you say last time not so long ago that you would never visit this phorum again? Nothing has changed in China, therefore do not expect anything changed here either. You definitely sound the old same. So, what is the point of repeating this "conversation?" As usual, your effort will only end up making you the punching bag for the anger management class here. If I were you, I would pick up my stall and leave for good. You cannot sell something out of nothing. Regardless of your pretentious good intentions, you have nothing to offer and will achieve nothing. If a little preaching could change world, would not we live in a wonderful place? Unfortunately, people are not ghosts, they do not live on words.
I could care less about what happened or happens in Turkey. It is hardly my problem. So, you dig all the dirt you want, but it is not mine. For a chauvenist person for whom everything is about one's ethnicity, it is a waste of time to talk about human dignity and human rights. For all the good phrases you toss around here, you a typical Chinese after all, like your countrymen you see everything through the prisms of nationalism. How else the Turkish-Armenian issue be relevant here?



I don't agree that China's economic development is necessarily bad for Uighurs. For a temporary time, yes. But I think it will eventually lead to democracy and human rights, which will benefit everybody. Also, now Xinjiang is a big economic center in Central Asia, there are all kinds of Central Asians going there for business, this will reinforce the Uighur identity and establish more links with other Central Asian Turks and Moslems.

Second, just because you hate China, which I can understand, please do not lie about Russia and Turkey. As much as you would like to portray Russia as an angel, we all know its long history of conquering peoples. The only reason why the Central Asian countries are independent is because the Soviet Union collapsed, and its central government became weak. Also, I think the past ten years of Russia destroying Chechnya is already proof enough that it will fight a bitter war before losing more territory.
Also, Turkey only transferred the Armenians? That is a Turkish lie. Everyone knows that 1.5 million Armenians were killed. Eastern Anatolia was part of the Armenian homeland, they were transferred and marched to death through the Syrian desert. If 1.5 million Armenians were transferred, where are they now?? Why are they not in Syria or Jordan?

Unregistered
13-11-06, 22:54
No, i wasn't here during the 90's, I just found this website. During the 90's, I was not very aware of the Uighur situation as I was in High School.

It's clear I'm not welcome here. Good bye.

Unregistered
14-11-06, 11:23
No, i wasn't here during the 90's, I just found this website. During the 90's, I was not very aware of the Uighur situation as I was in High School.

It's clear I'm not welcome here. Good bye.

it's not that people hate you or chinese as a whole,because they are racists!
on the contrary Uyghurs-like all Turks- are very easy going and tolerant to all cultures and races,
here people have bitter feelings because every Uyghur have a relative is either
gone missing or brutaly killed under chinese torture!
How about that?
is there a nation in the world that even the most basic right-the right to live-is being raped and violated!
it is not personal,but it is natural that you get this response,
plus,you try to disfigure and disorientate the matters!
what do you expect?
do you know the term "XENOPHOBIA" is used for chinese?
they are the most "Jingoistic" people in the world,and this descriptions are very well fit to them!
so good by to you too!

Unregistered
14-11-06, 16:19
No, i wasn't here during the 90's, I just found this website. During the 90's, I was not very aware of the Uighur situation as I was in High School.

It's clear I'm not welcome here. Good bye.


See what I mean. As you left this site, the chinese people will one day leave our land.... And i thought you said we wouldn't win.... already you have given up..

Unregistered
14-11-06, 16:23
No, I'm not anybody of power or anything. You don't have to waste your time with me. I was trying to have some civilized conversation, but of course, you guys think all Han Chinese are demons. So what's the use.

Anyways, if I was Uighur, I may probably want independence too. But it's not going to happen.

Lo..

You prove yourself to be a demon as your people are.. only the devil thinks independance will not come, thats why everyone hates the devil....

and as for wanting independance for yourself, the chinese know freedom not even though they are not caged, becuse their faith is caged.. they have no faith.

Unregistered
24-03-09, 02:50
I think that there is nothing wrong with the Chinese govt. China is a huge country with a very different political idea. If you think close enough, communism isn't all bad, but it's not very good either. If there wasn't communism in China, the country would be a slum. There was too much of a gap between the rich and poor back then, and the population of the poor people were rising, communism helped give the beggars a bit of money for them to live. But since communism was a bit too strong, China reduced themselves to socialism.
and responding to your problem with birth control, that country would have been like India if you haven't watched 'slumdog millionaire' with the worlds second highest population and small landmass.

Sometimes, the thoughts of people are just too shallow.


Hi, my handle is obtuse_edge, I am a new member.

Yakshimusiz. I am Han Chinese, but grew up in the US, so I am Chinese American. I have been to Xinjiang, in fact, I have studied a lot about Uighurs, Central Asia and Islam. I often return back to China to travel or visit relatives.

I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?

I agree with you that China needs to dramatically change its human rights record. No matter how many benefits the state gives to minorities, without political expression and the freedom to express your feelings in a safe manner, there is no dignity. Actually, this goes for all Chinese citizens, but in Xinjiang, there is extra attention paid to the Uighurs. China's policy is counteractive, nothing can resolve the anger without freedom of expression and honest discussion, instead of just repeating the same tired Communist propaganda. Some Han Chinese like to point out that the govt. gives preferential policies to minorities based on college admission, birth control, etc. I think that these kind of policies can never make up for political repression and the inability to define your own culture on your own terms. I often thought that if I was Uighur, I would be among the most militant too.

As for independence, I don't think that's even a possibility. China will never allow Xinjiang to become an independent nation, it is too valuable. Also, it's not necessarily in the economic interests of Uighurs to become independent as well, China will become the world's superpower in twenty years, Uighurs have access to the future's largest economic power. Perhaps in the future when China becomes a democracy, Uighurs can form political lobby groups that may have some influence on China's foreign policy, in that vein, Uighurs might become one of the world's most influential Moslem groups as it may have influence in the world's superpower.

Anyways, those are my ideas. Feel free to challenge, criticize or agree. Thank you. Ramat Sizge!

Unregistered
24-03-09, 06:06
dear friend,
I am auyghur, but I don't write uyghur, only speak. I want make friend with you, maybe you are benefit make friends with me. my e-mail: uyghurtur@gmail.com. look forward your write.

Unregistered
24-03-09, 07:25
I think that there is nothing wrong with the Chinese govt. China is a huge country with a very different political idea. If you think close enough, communism isn't all bad, but it's not very good either. If there wasn't communism in China, the country would be a slum. There was too much of a gap between the rich and poor back then, and the population of the poor people were rising, communism helped give the beggars a bit of money for them to live. But since communism was a bit too strong, China reduced themselves to socialism.
and responding to your problem with birth control, that country would have been like India if you haven't watched 'slumdog millionaire' with the worlds second highest population and small landmass.

Sometimes, the thoughts of people are just too shallow.

Well to me it is the people that we dont like ...because you chinks have occupied our country and tried to change its history in a way to steal the land from us.... we no longer believe in you guys,be it communist or socialism or capitalism....we just want to have nothing to do with china...it is our strongest wish...you know i ask from god not heaven but freedom of my land and my people...going hell is ok because hell is better than china

Unregistered
24-03-09, 12:07
the way you bend over for English, Russians,and Turks makes me laugh really hard. I know uyghurs went to Chechenya fighting russians and went to Afganistan fighting americans. Where did you learn about human diginity? From you beloved Americans and Russians?


Thanks for your interest in Uyghurs.
But , let you know , what Uyghur wants is full independence from china. Nothing less. Because chinese is not russian, english and Turk. You see these nations or people have better hearts, respect human dignity and democracy.
China and chinese people, maybe after 100-1000 years they may understand human dignity, but before the arrival that time,they will never stop assaulting, killing, maiming other ethnicities they conquered.
So our chinese friend, your heart maybe good, but believing you is tentamount to committing suicide.
You see, history repeats itself , how many ancient empires still exists today?
so does chinese empire!

Kokbore
24-03-09, 12:40
Hi, my handle is obtuse_edge, I am a new member.

Yakshimusiz. I am Han Chinese, but grew up in the US, so I am Chinese American. I have been to Xinjiang, in fact, I have studied a lot about Uighurs, Central Asia and Islam. I often return back to China to travel or visit relatives.

I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?

I agree with you that China needs to dramatically change its human rights record. No matter how many benefits the state gives to minorities, without political expression and the freedom to express your feelings in a safe manner, there is no dignity. Actually, this goes for all Chinese citizens, but in Xinjiang, there is extra attention paid to the Uighurs. China's policy is counteractive, nothing can resolve the anger without freedom of expression and honest discussion, instead of just repeating the same tired Communist propaganda. Some Han Chinese like to point out that the govt. gives preferential policies to minorities based on college admission, birth control, etc. I think that these kind of policies can never make up for political repression and the inability to define your own culture on your own terms. I often thought that if I was Uighur, I would be among the most militant too.

As for independence, I don't think that's even a possibility. China will never allow Xinjiang to become an independent nation, it is too valuable. Also, it's not necessarily in the economic interests of Uighurs to become independent as well, China will become the world's superpower in twenty years, Uighurs have access to the future's largest economic power. Perhaps in the future when China becomes a democracy, Uighurs can form political lobby groups that may have some influence on China's foreign policy, in that vein, Uighurs might become one of the world's most influential Moslem groups as it may have influence in the world's superpower.

Anyways, those are my ideas. Feel free to challenge, criticize or agree. Thank you. Ramat Sizge!

I have been teacher at East Turkistan (you call Xinjiang). I taught Chinese student, not only my Uyghur compatriot. If you are interested in discussing Uyghur issue with us, please leave your phone number or e-mail. I promise I will call you and arrange a discussion with you in very polite manner in peace.

You looks so civilized; but you don't understand humans history and most importantly, the humans faith. If we determined to struggle for our freedom, we will get to that destination one day. For that reason we are willing to sacrifice all we have, even our life. Until we get to the destination of freedom which is the East Turkistan Republic, we will not give up, never, ever! We will pay for it with our blood and Han Chinese's blood.

You should know how many glorious empire still exist now. Rome once was an untouchable empire. Where it is now? USSR, another good example, even was threaten to U.S. and China as well to rest of the world. Where it is now? That is the history. We study the history try to do not repeat predecessor's tragedy; but we are as human we never succeeded in this point. I would say Chinese even not yet get to the point to study history with honest, you even can't figure out decade ago happened Tina'an Men Square massacre. Could you tell me how many Chinese was killed after communist rule, I am pretty sure, when you read this question, you will be ashamed by your Chinese compatriot; if you are a person who has faith, who is honest.

Look at the Chinese history, few decades ago, you were conquered by Japanise; hundred years ago, you were sub-class citizen of Man-Qing dynasty. If I repeat all your Chinese history, it will looks tedious. I just want to mention one more thing in your Chinese history which you need to spent a little bit time to study. In all Chinese history how many time the Chinese had established an unified dynasty only by Chinese. You only have one pure Chinese established unified dynasty which is the Han dynasty, and its glorious only lasted for a very short time!

Believe or not, we will fight to the last one Uyghur's death. If we couldn't get freedom, at least we have the choice to die as a free man, as a fighter for freedom, as warrior, not a subject of Chinese!

Unregistered
24-03-09, 21:37
Hello Chinese Lady, what is ur real aim to come here? are u teaching us something that hiden with trap. if u good man,do not wast ur time, bye.

Unregistered
24-03-09, 23:57
I have been teacher at East Turkistan (you call Xinjiang). I taught Chinese student, not only my Uyghur compatriot. If you are interested in discussing Uyghur issue with us, please leave your phone number or e-mail. I promise I will call you and arrange a discussion with you in very polite manner in peace.

You looks so civilized; but you don't understand humans history and most importantly, the humans faith. If we determined to struggle for our freedom, we will get to that destination one day. For that reason we are willing to sacrifice all we have, even our life. Until we get to the destination of freedom which is the East Turkistan Republic, we will not give up, never, ever! We will pay for it with our blood and Han Chinese's blood.

You should know how many glorious empire still exist now. Rome once was an untouchable empire. Where it is now? USSR, another good example, even was threaten to U.S. and China as well to rest of the world. Where it is now? That is the history. We study the history try to do not repeat predecessor's tragedy; but we are as human we never succeeded in this point. I would say Chinese even not yet get to the point to study history with honest, you even can't figure out decade ago happened Tina'an Men Square massacre. Could you tell me how many Chinese was killed after communist rule, I am pretty sure, when you read this question, you will be ashamed by your Chinese compatriot; if you are a person who has faith, who is honest.

Look at the Chinese history, few decades ago, you were conquered by Japanise; hundred years ago, you were sub-class citizen of Man-Qing dynasty. If I repeat all your Chinese history, it will looks tedious. I just want to mention one more thing in your Chinese history which you need to spent a little bit time to study. In all Chinese history how many time the Chinese had established an unified dynasty only by Chinese. You only have one pure Chinese established unified dynasty which is the Han dynasty, and its glorious only lasted for a very short time!

Believe or not, we will fight to the last one Uyghur's death. If we couldn't get freedom, at least we have the choice to die as a free man, as a fighter for freedom, as warrior, not a subject of Chinese! Youuuuuu have the nerve to get on this website!!!!!!!.? let me tell you this, you came to our country just like the way you came to the United States, such as by ship, by train and with your skinny donkey. You spread like cockroaches. God help America!!!!! You Chinese already started your long term plan on USA too! I hope they come with better plan than you do to help to get rid off the cochroaches HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

Unregistered
25-03-09, 16:10
Youuuuuu have the nerve to get on this website!!!!!!!.? let me tell you this, you came to our country just like the way you came to the United States, such as by ship, by train and with your skinny donkey. You spread like cockroaches. God help America!!!!! You Chinese already started your long term plan on USA too! I hope they come with better plan than you do to help to get rid off the cochroaches HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

??????????????????????????

Unregistered
17-04-09, 23:42
Youuuuuu have the nerve to get on this website!!!!!!!.? let me tell you this, you came to our country just like the way you came to the United States, such as by ship, by train and with your skinny donkey. You spread like cockroaches. God help America!!!!! You Chinese already started your long term plan on USA too! I hope they come with better plan than you do to help to get rid off the cochroaches HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

You need to get lost. Stop spreading your hatred and we have been in America for many years already. You clearly are a bitter individual who needs to stop hating every single Chinese person out there. Chinese Americans are different from the China Chinese. Really man, this is AMERICA!!!!! Drop your hatred here. Now, HERE IN THE UNITED STATES PLEASE. (from a Chinese Canadian, born in Canada, raised in Hong Kong, studying in the States).

Unregistered
18-04-09, 00:13
Hey guys,

Look, alright. For anyone reading this, Chinese or Uyghur, please know that the government is not treating people right. DO NOT spread this to individual Chinese people, don't hate on us just because we are born Han. I don't hate on you, but what some of you are doing is unreasonable. Allow to refer back to my previous post called stop, and some guy was saying Chinese are cockroaches? Excuse me, but Chinese Americans are pretty much American, and you cannot, I say against CANNOT blame them for your problems. Quit thinking Chinese are enemy cuz they are NOT. They are HUMAN BEINGS just like you and me, Uyghur or Han. Its not healthy to keep this hatred, nor is it right. Alot of us Hans just want to befriend you guys, we have no hidden agenda, why would we? I've no hidden agenda, and I don't like the Communist Party. Alright guys? Please read and think it over. Thank you. (From a Chinese Canadian originally from Hong Kong).

God bless.

Unregistered
18-04-09, 00:43
You need to get lost. Stop spreading your hatred and we have been in America for many years already. You clearly are a bitter individual who needs to stop hating every single Chinese person out there. Chinese Americans are different from the China Chinese. Really man, this is AMERICA!!!!! Drop your hatred here. Now, HERE IN THE UNITED STATES PLEASE. (from a Chinese Canadian, born in Canada, raised in Hong Kong, studying in the States).

" Chinese Americans are different from the China Chinese. " Ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is you all chinese . You need to get lost , really .

Unregistered
18-04-09, 02:57
whoever you are, ur giving urself a bad name. start being open minded and quit being so narrow minded in ur views. u a uyghur? well stop arousing more hatred, stop contributing to the problem. chinese americans ARE different from mainland chinese culturally since chinese americans have been in the US for 100+ years. some of them cant even speak chinese anymore. you my friend give yourself a bad name as i said before and just accept people as who they are. take this from a chinese that chinese americans and mainland chinese are culturally different and i did NOT come here to start a fight. keep it calm. i accept you for who you are. it would be nice if you do the same. thank you!

Unregistered
18-04-09, 14:54
whoever you are, ur giving urself a bad name. start being open minded and quit being so narrow minded in ur views. u a uyghur? well stop arousing more hatred, stop contributing to the problem. chinese americans ARE different from mainland chinese culturally since chinese americans have been in the US for 100+ years. some of them cant even speak chinese anymore. you my friend give yourself a bad name as i said before and just accept people as who they are. take this from a chinese that chinese americans and mainland chinese are culturally different and i did NOT come here to start a fight. keep it calm. i accept you for who you are. it would be nice if you do the same. thank you!

But in china, no one Han chinese like Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities, so we think wherever a han chinese is born in, s/he has same concept. Actually Uyghur people don't hate others, but we hate the people who hate us.

Unregistered
18-04-09, 15:11
But in china, no one Han chinese like Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities, so we think wherever a han chinese is born in, s/he has same concept. Actually Uyghur people don't hate others, but we hate the people who hate us.

Well, I can assure you though I am Han, I am not completely a Han in my head if you know what I mean. I was born in Canada for a start, raised in Hong Kong which is a socially very different city from the rest of China, went to international schools where I learnt English and foreign ideas which I adopted. So basically, I'm kinda white washed if you will. I love all people, including Japanese. Some of my best friends are Japanese, and I'm learning their language. Above all, I will say flat out I do not hate you. I'm sure you are all nice people if we can just bother to understand each other. Thank you. =)

Unregistered
18-04-09, 17:38
So in all, not all Hans are like what you've known. There are very different types of Hans out there in the world. Just please know, that not all Hans are bad.

Unregistered
19-04-09, 20:59
Hey guys, please let me tell you another thing. We are not here to invade. Only for mutual dialogue. Do not view this is an invasion, please. This is a forum. We can express, but do so in a polite, civilized manner, please once again. There are good Chinese beyond East Turkestan/Xinjiang. Do not think that all Chinese are bad, please. This is an incorrect judgment, and you all don't even know me so don't judge me. I won't judge you, but from some people on this forum it seems all they do is wanna criticize. I did nothing against you, so why should you bother me then? Aite then, peace and God bless.

Unregistered
19-04-09, 21:19
Hi what do you want from us? listen we need freedom. If you want to know Uyghurs' situation in China please visit East Turkistan then you can imagine why Uyghur scholars want to fight against han chinese. you said, you are a student in the US which University are you in? I am also a student in US, i have been here for two years.

Unregistered
19-04-09, 23:32
Hi what do you want from us? listen we need freedom. If you want to know Uyghurs' situation in China please visit East Turkistan then you can imagine why Uyghur scholars want to fight against han chinese. you said, you are a student in the US which University are you in? I am also a student in US, i have been here for two years.

hey dude, well look all i want to be able to do is to be normal friends with you guys regardless of ethnicity. that's not too hard right? well matter of fact i do plan to visit East Turkistan this summer. I have always been interested in you guys' culture. But just know that Han Chinese people as a whole (including Chinese Americans, Chinese Canadians or wherever) are not tied with the PRC government. We are not the government. We are just individuals. The PRC government is to blame for your troubles, not just any old Chinese guy. Alright....which university you at? I'm in Michigan, though not U of M. You are a sophomore now yea?

Unregistered
20-04-09, 00:08
By the way, Im in Calvin College, and what about you?

Unregistered
20-04-09, 10:58
By the way, Im in Calvin College, and what about you?

Welcome to visit east Turkistan just compare Uyghurs' life to Hans'. I am at Washington University in St. Louis. Also welcome to come my University.

Unregistered
20-04-09, 14:37
Cool, how's life like there for you? How you liking your sophomore year? When did you start learning English and are you going home this summer (is your family still in East Turkestan/Xinjiang?)

Unregistered
20-04-09, 14:55
Cool, how's life like there for you? How you liking your sophomore year? When did you start learning English and are you going home this summer (is your family still in East Turkestan/Xinjiang?)

I am very busy becuase I am graduating end of Aug.

Good luck with your journey in East turkestan.

Unregistered
20-04-09, 17:49
Hey, how come you are graduating in the end of August? Isn't it in May? What do you plan to do after graduation?

Unregistered
20-04-09, 18:15
Hey, how come you are graduating in the end of August? Isn't it in May? What do you plan to do after graduation?

We have summer course.

Fighting for freedom. That is the a reason why I came here

Unregistered
20-04-09, 22:30
Very patriotic I see. So are you in international relations or something like it? Well, I hope that you do well and set things right though its weird to hear it from me. Not sure what else to say, unless you wanna talk over email so that others may take up this forum place. However, I hope you don't mind me saying this but remember hit the right people responsible for your suffering and may there be peace between our peoples still.

Xiao Liu
21-04-09, 08:36
Well, I think after these pages of exchange of idea, it just confirms my original idea that ethnic nationalism all or kinds, is stupid, dangerous and plainly a virus.

To a certain extend some ignorant Han Chinese might feel Han chauvinism because of history, personally there is no "Han nationalism" in the real sense. When I traveled to Hong kong, I have to use English more often because I can't really speak Cantonese and their mandarin is poor.

With increase globalism and inter-marriage with minority, there will be only one "Chinese" in the civic sense. No more Han Chinese, uyghur or Tibetan. And I'm seeing more and more movement into this direction.

Unregistered
21-04-09, 11:21
Well, I think after these pages of exchange of idea, it just confirms my original idea that ethnic nationalism all or kinds, is stupid, dangerous and plainly a virus.

To a certain extend some ignorant Han Chinese might feel Han chauvinism because of history, personally there is no "Han nationalism" in the real sense. When I traveled to Hong kong, I have to use English more often because I can't really speak Cantonese and their mandarin is poor.

With increase globalism and inter-marriage with minority, there will be only one "Chinese" in the civic sense. No more Han Chinese, uyghur or Tibetan. And I'm seeing more and more movement into this direction.

I suggest you never come back here until learn more about freedom and diversity.

Unregistered
21-04-09, 13:27
I suggest you never come back here until learn more about freedom and diversity.

Hey man, well the guy does know about diversity, I mean inter marriage does happen, and its also a way of increasing diversity. there will always be pures of one kind, but intermarriages are happening. its nothing bad to my point of view, but you may object.

Unregistered
21-04-09, 14:02
Hey man, well the guy does know about diversity, I mean inter marriage does happen, and its also a way of increasing diversity. there will always be pures of one kind, but intermarriages are happening. its nothing bad to my point of view, but you may object.

Hey, How did you know I have a Han mistress in China?

Unregistered
21-04-09, 16:22
Hey man, you're the guy at Washington University yea? do you really have a han girl back home? i really didn't know that...sorry its just that the names dont appear on the forum place so thats why i dunno if its u or another guy. well what are you studying? you like han women? didnt know...

Unregistered
21-04-09, 18:13
bir xitay gepke salsa sobet otkuzuwermey buni oqung we iliwetmeng. uyghurlar arisida sozleshke qaytayli. u xitay gep alidu . maymun oynutudu. xitayche bilsingizmu u xitayni qoyup uyghurche ugining. bu yaxshi kongul bilen diyilgen gep.

**********************************+

Bush ketti uaa din xitay diktaturliqi ketmidi

Radiodin teklip qilin'ghan „obzorchi perhat memidi-yorunqash http://www.Rfa.Org/uyghur/obzor/obzo...009111931.Html diki reddiyelerge jawap bermidi. Xatalirini tonumidi. Reddiye beguchige bu sorunda jawap qayturalmay aksiche saet 10 din ashqanda tilifun ichip “so...” Depla tillap tiropkini qoyiwetken.(Telefon xatirisi saqlaqliq) bu munasiwet bilen haywaniliq haqaritige qarshi tigishlik jawap supitide burun ilan qilin'ghan
We uni hamiliqigha alghan UAA din ilip tashlan'ghan towendiki yazmini qayta ilan qilishni muwapiq taptuq.

Herqandaq birining sozi toghra bolishi natayin bolghanliqidin, bizge panaliq biriwatqan chetellerdiki erkin doletlerde herkimning soz qilish erkinliki bar dep insan heqliri bayanati ilan
Qilin'ghan.

Eslide "sozge-soz kelse atangdin qaytma" - nechche ming yilliq uyghur hurlukining, dimokratiyesining simwoli idi. Bugun sozge kelgende xitaydin bolghan "aka"mizdin, uning kozori xitaygha qesem bergen "meniwi ana"mizdin qaytidighan bolduq. Bu ikkisini maxtap poqini halwa qilip uyghurlargha yiduriwatqan
Qelemkesh obzorchi "perhatlenbang" dur.

Perhat memet-yorungqashning obzorigha uyghurlar teripidin deslepki baha we qayil qilarliq derijide reddiyeler birildi. Gewdilendurulgen asasi idiyesi ilmi yosunda eyiplendi, ret qilindi. Intayin kongolluk erkinlik (dimokratiye) hawasi yaritildi.Toghra-xata, ras-yalghan, guzellik bilen setlikning perqi emdila ashkariliniwidi, ish buzuldi. Obzorchi xataliqini itirap qilish uyaqta tursun, toqmaq-kaltekler bilen popoza qilip otturigha chiqti. Moshundaq ish buzdilarning tupeyli bugun qeyerge kelduq biz? Men palani digen kimlerdur otturigha chiqip uyghurlarning put-qolini kishenlimekte. “Tinchliq, sohbet, xitay birliki” dep xitayghimu qarshi gep qilalmaydighan
Qilip qoyiwatidu.. Uning nime heqqi bar. Bundaqlarning heqqini bildurup qoyush kirek.

Bu dimokratiye hawasi yene tizla sisidi. Uzun'gha barmidi. Tenqit we reddiyelerge qarshi "menla sozleymen, yazimen, sehnide riyasetchimen, xitay birlikchisimen" bolop ugen'gen mutehemlik,
Siyasi lukcheklik we hichnimige yarimaydighan uning tehdit , haqaret, tohmetliri torbetni bir ilip keldi.
Ulardin birla misal: "kalla dise, paqalchek deydighan biri oxshaysen, qarashliring nime digen mujimel ?
Tilingni chaynimay gepni ochuq qilishni uginip aldin bu meydan'gha kir, ademni seskendurmey, chishing qichishqan bolsa adem ghajimay birer tirekni tepip ghaja ...." Lardin ibaret.

Epsuski adminlar bu haqaretni we obzorchining ozini "aqlishi"ni shu piti turghuzup qoyup reddiyelerni ilip tashlidi. Xitayning diktatura astidiki metbuat tuzumi, gitlir zamanidiki fashisit usulning del ozi bu. Uaa diki adminlarning hemmisi bu ishqa oxshash qarimaydighanliqigha ishinimiz. Iliwitilgen yazmini qayta qoyup qoyduq. Rahetsiz bolghanlar uyghur bolsa haqaret qilmay bizge rdeddiye we yiqindin yardem bersun. Mesilen yazmining "kallisi"ni, "paqalchiqi" ni yaki gewdisini emes xalighan bir abzastini tutup ilip, mawu gep mandaq dep biqish kirek. Diktaturluqqa xatime bermey uyghurlarning dimokratiyesidin soz ichish mumkinmu? Iliwitilgen reddiyelerni qayta qoyduq. Qeni yene iliwitip biqing... Jasaritingizni korup baqayli.
_____________________________

Diqqitinglarni http://www.Rfa.Org/uyghur/obzor/obzo...009111931.Html diki obzorgha reddiyeler we qopal jawaplar, haqaret-tohmetlerge jelip qilimiz.:

„Bu bugun ya tunugunki ish emes, xitayning nijis tapini sherqi turkistan ziminigha basqan bilen teng dixanla emes, putun uyghurlarning koriwatqan kuni shu boluwatmay, 4 tok-tok ushshaq tijaretchi uyghurni xitaygha ghalchiliq qilip heshemetlik igiz binalarda yashawatqan 6 uyghurni kozde tutup uyghurlar xitay partiyesining nuri astida bayashat yashap kelgen, turmush yaxshilansa altun tawaqni koturup jungyangdin tilep yurmeydu dimekchimidingiz? -Obzormish tixi bu???“

- Reddiyege perhatning haqaretlik jawabi: "kalla dise, paqalchek deydighan biri oxshaysen, qarashliring nime digen mujimel ? Tilingni chaynimay gepni ochuq qilishni uginip aldin bu meydan'gha kir, ademni seskendurmey, chishing qichishqan bolsa adem ghajimay birer tirekni tepip ghaja ...."

Fra da ilan qiliniwatqan perhat we sidiqhaji rozilarning "obzor"lairining hemmiside digidek xitayning
Uyghur wetinini bisiwalghan mustemlike tuzumidin ibaret balayi-apetlerning bash menbi qesten kozdin qachurulghan. Bu uzun yildin biri dawam qiliwatqan izchilliq! ulargha qarshi pikir qilish cheklen'genliki uchun uyghurlarni qattiq bihush qilip kiliwatidu. Obzorchilar dewir surgenlerni uzutup boldi, yene obzorchilar qaldi. Ularni FRF bashliqi qurbanweli teklip qilghanliqi melum. Yashlarni kop ishlardin
Xewersiz qaldurushti. Bolup-otkenlerni ulargha eslitish kirek.

"Aqsaqallar"ning bolsa bu gep chiqqanda uni ichige chushupla kitidu. Her kim "ejili bilen olush"ning koyida.Hichkimning abduxaliq uyghur, shepqet-hemshire rizwan'gul, arslan, hashir wayidi, murat.... Largha oxshash olgusi yoq. Emma her-kim "olumdin qorqmaymiz, jan tikimiz" deydu. Janni bir yerge qoyup turup herkim bir ighizdin toghra gep tikse idi.... Nimiler unup chiqqan bolatti? "Pishqedemler"ning tirighan "chin turkistan we xitay birliki ning balayi-apetlirige biz uchrawatimiz. Yashlarni kop ishlardin xewersiz qaldurushti. Her-tereptin melum bolmaqta. Yalghanni ras, rasni yalghan qilip bolushti.

Usa da 1994 -yili ichki mongghul, tibet we uyghurlarning insan heqliri yighini otkuzuldi. Tibet wekili jar shin'gi dunya jamaiti aldida sozge chiqip: xitaylar bizni tibette az sanliqqa chushurup qoydi. Tibetler tinchliq yol bilen heqqige ige bolalmighanda, elbette bashqa zorluq wastilar arqiliq qarshiliq korsutushke mejbur bolidu... Digen.

"Sherqi turkistan wekili" : "xitay sherqi turkistanda atom siniqini toxtatsila uyghurlar qozghilang kotermeydu, qarshiliq herketliri bilen shughullanmaydu, xatirjem yashaydu.... Dep joyligen "sherqi turkistan sabiq DUQ wekili omer qanat idi. U yighinda enwerjanlarmu bar bolop wekiller omikining bashliqi yene shu erkin eysa alip tekin idi. Buninggha qarshi dud din bashqahichkim bir nerse dimidi. Belki obzorchi perhat uni gizitide soyunup ilan qilghan idi. Herqandaq bir qanliq yara ichilsa bu ependi we qanat-quyruqlar shu yerdin chiqmay qalmaydu.

Gheziwi qaynighan bir uyghur bu ish ustide omer qanatni tar yerge qistap: " hey omer ... Kotungni qisip qilidighan bashqa ishingni tap. Bu nime digining"? - Digende, omer qanat: "sozning tikistini erkin alip tikin teyyarlighan. Mining tigim tajik, bu ishlarni yingi uginiwatimen". -Digen idi. Bu neq meydandiki 3-shexsi duq diki wezipiliridin istipa bergen ablikim xoten. Orun frankfurt...

Fra da ilan qiliniwatqan "obzor"lardimu xitayning uyghur wetinini bisiwalghan mustemlike tuzumidin ibaret balayi-apetlerning bash menbi qesten kozdin qachurulghan. Diqqet burmilan'ghan. Duq da qurulghan bir "teptish heyiti" bolop. Uning wezipisi qarshi pikir qilghanlarni "4 uyghurgha olturguziwitish, umu bolmisa ikki putini bir otekke tiqip bijinggha iwetip birish" . Bu ilan uaa da ilan qilin'ghan. Bashqa bir teptish heyiti ozlikidin oqurmenler arisida quruldi. "Obzor"largha, qesten kozdin qachurulghan, diqqet burmilan'ghan
Qarangghuluqlargha baha birish uninggha chiraq yiqp ashkarilash ewj aldi.

Bu xil qestenlik her bir "obzor"da izchilliqqa ige. "Obzor"larda, torbetlerde diqqet-nezer ushshaq ishlargha, qorchaq kadir nurbekirlerge, uyghurseteng jasus ayalgha, naxshichi ayalgha, nawayi uyghurmu- ozbekmu -talishishigha, kiyim-kichekler bilen yoshurulidighan numusluq yerlerge, "uyghurlarning turmushini yaxshilash"qa, bingtuwen yerlikning suyini tartiwaldi, suni tartiwalmisila boldi- dep guwaliq birishke, uyghurlarning" dushmini" aydiz kisilige, xitaylar ixtisadi kiriziske uchridi, rosiye kiriziske patti... Qatarliqlar bolushigha teshwiq qilindi. Uaa torbiti uyghurlarni tiximu bir-biri bilen tillishshiqa, dushmenlishishke kushkurtidighan jeng meydanigha aylandrulldi.

Obzorlar uyghurlarning 100 qitim qilghan namayishini yoqqa chiqiridighan derijide xitaypereslikke ige. Shundaq
Emesmu?- Kim yaq deydu? Sozlep baqsun. Emma sozleshke ruxset yoq.

Fra : ularni "mexsus teklip qilin'ghan obzorchilirimiz, emma mesuliyetke biz ige emes" dep ilan qildi. Mesuliyet bashqa. Mesuliyet yaman. Derweqe, reddiyedin jini tuyudighan obzorchi qelimini tashlap emdi lukchekke aylinidu: "qarighanda maqalini oqumay turupla joyligendek qilisen .... Yene bir oqup baq" - oqurmen'ge mush atidighan bu qandaq obzorchi?

Bu oqurmenlerge qilin'ghan haqaret, zorawanliq we ajizliq!. Uyghurlar bugunlerde "yene bir oqup "baqmay"la kimning nime yazidighanliqini biliwalidighan bolop ketti. "Yene bir oqup baq"qansiri oqurmenler kimning joyluwatqanliqini biliwalidu. Uzundin biri sehnidin chushmey, bashqilargha soz bermey, qara bisip joylupla kiliwatqan perhatqa oxshash heqiqiten birnechchesi bar. Ademni qara bassa joylutudu. Qara basqan yaman.

Orun-miyunxin. Perhatning oyidiki seher sohbiti:
- Axsham "obzorning tikistini teyyarlighan men emes, erkin akam idi, insap qilinglar" - dep kop joylup oyghutuwetting dada bizni, senmu omer akash digen hiliqi xitaygha oxshaydighan erkin eysa dadashni dimekchighu sen?

Info@uyguria.Chom

************************************************** ****

Obzorgha reddiyelerning dawami

Bir maqalining uyer - buyerige baha bermey, omomi gewdisige we yetekchi idiyesige baha berish lazim, towendiki abzaslarda omomi gewdisi, yetekchi idiyesi we aptorning meqsidi eniq otturigha qoyulghanliqi ashkare:

„ Bu obzurni oqughan biri, uyghurlarning yaman emes halda ikenligini chushinishi anche qiyin emes.“

„ Nopusi 20 milyon bolghan uyghurdin 1milyon 500 mingi yoqsul bolup bulargha dewlet yardem puli biriwatqan bolsa uyghurning halini yaman digini bolamdu? Sotsyal yardem 3-dunya elliride asasen yoq, peqet gherip elliridila mewjuttur.“ - Xxtayning sizge biriwatqan "sotsiyal yardemi"din kopchulukning xewiri bar. Ikkisini arilashturiwaldingizmu qandaq?

„Bu obzurda iytilghan boz yerning kolimi we kishi bishigha chushidighan terilghu yer mqtari heqqidiki sanliq melumatlar xittay dairlirining sherqi turkistan'gha xitaydin nopus yotkesh uchun birilgen saxta melumatlardur.“ - Uni qollunush qandaq isngizge kelgendu?

„Emeliyette sherqi turkistan muhiti ighir derijide bulghunup qumluqlar kingeymekte, otlaqlar qurumaqta. Mewjut terilghu yerlirimiz azaymaqta. Hittay bingtuenliri uyghurlrning suyini tartiwilip boz yer achmaqta. Konchi deryasining suyini boghuwalghan bingtuen lopnur kolini kurutti. Bizde su qis. Uyghurninng suyini kisip boz yer achqan bilen uyghurning yiri chollishiwatidude?! Ichilwatqan bozyerdin chollishiwatqan topraqni chiqirwitishni bilsingiz andin terilghu yerning miqtarini toghra otturgha qoyghan bolisiz.“ . Bilmeydighan nersilerni sozlimeng. Kop yerge chat kiriwaldingiz, emma chak kitiwatidu. Sizdin bashqa
Kurming uyghur bar wé chak ketmigen.

*****
Siz bu obzorning merkizi idiyesini bashqa yaqqa burimapsiz. Obzorning merkizi idiyesi obzorning gewdisini koturup turghan towendiki bir abzas sozingiz bilenla gewdilen'gen:

„Zemin jehettimu bu tupraq putun xitayning altidin biri," - bu siz - tupraq berguchi perhatning sozige asaslan'ghanda uyghur xitaygha tewe bolop kettighu?. Awghanistan'gha birip qalghanlarni "xata waqitta, xata orunda turup qaldi" dep yurgen idingiz. Girmaniyedin qayturulsingiz qeyerning toghra waqi bilen, xaa emes tupriqida toghra orun apasiz?

„ Sherqi turkistan junggo topruqining 1/6 ni teshkil qilidu depsiz. Bu sizge yarishidighan ibare emes. Eger sherqi turkistan xittay tupriqi dep qaralghanda siz digendek shundaq bolidu.“

Obzorning „asasi gewdisi, ras-yalghanliri uning merkizi idiyesini gewdilendurush uchun qoshulghanliqini koriwilish mumkin. Yeni, obzorning merkizi idiyesi – „bu tupraq xitayning altidin biri“. Buni oqurmen yazmidi, u oqudi, joylimidi - xalas! reddiyelerge jawap bermidi. Xatalirini tonumidi. Rddiye beguchige bu sorunda jawap qayturalmay axsham saet 10din ashqanda tilifun ichip xitaydin alghan dollarning kuchi bilen reddiye berguchini tillash asanliqche
Qutuludighan ish emes.

"Xitay birliki" uchun 10 nechche yil erkin eysagha qelemkeshlik qilghan perhat muhemmet yorungqashning
Uyghur millitini xitay ichige singdurup tutup birishi solamchiliq dep atilidu. Uyghur wetinini "xitayning
Altiden biri" dep UAA da ilan qilishi uyghurlarning tupriqini, wetinini xitaygha solap bergenlik bolidu.
Bundaq solamchiliqning elbette xxtaydin kilidighan bedili bolmay qalmaydu. Xitayning qoli bilen sanap alghan
5 Reqemlik dollar solamchiliq uchun birilgen heqtur. Yuqurqilar senler oydurup chiqarghan bohtan we tohmetler emes
Pakitliq, ispatliq jinayetlerning bir qismidinla ibaret!uning dawami, toluqi oz solida, toghra waqitta, toghra oronda otturigha qoyilidu.

“ Palanining xotunini itiwitishke sewep bolghan”, “hashir wayidini kushkurtqan”, “oyige bir ay
Bir ayalni soliwalghan”digen tohmetxor eblexlerdin erkin eysa sining 15 yilliq ustazing, ablikim baqi sanga oxshash
Yuzi qilin xitay pul mana dise dum chushup qalghach imza qoyidighan satqun, bu tohmetlerni sen bilen tekrarlighan
Qurban welining xotuni sanga amirikida dollar bergen xitayning bir-tuqqunidur.

Teshkilatimiz bu munasiwet bilen „obzor“ heqqide mundaq murajet ilan qilidu:

Obzorgha qarshi reddiyening dawami tugimeydu elbette. Yuqurqilargha tayan'ghanda ozini aqlash bihode awarichiliq. „Yene bir oqup baq“qanda aptorning bashqa obzorliri we maqalelerining xitaypereslik bilen yughurulghanliqini korimiz. Ularni derhal ilip tashlash, apturni uyghur medyasidin uzaqlashturush zorur. Gomindang dewride sabiq 3 teshkilatning 3 jornilining ortaq bash muherriri, bash tehriri bolush, "xitay birliki" uchun 10 nechche yil qelemkeshlik qilishtek jinayetlerge jawap birish ornigha, tenqit, reddiye, pikir bilen qol uzatsa mush atidighan lukcheklikke xatime birish kirek! obzorchini "teklip" qilghan emma mesuliyitige ige bolmaydighan radiodiki qurban welini uyghurlar arisidin tazilash kirek.

Senlerning qilmishliringni emdi biliwatqanlar bar. Bu gepnimu bilip qoyghan yaxshi:

"Ötkenki ejdatlar komunizm we fashizmni meghlubiyetke uchritishta yalghuz bashqurulidighan bomba we tankilargha tayanmay ittipaqdashliqni kücheytip, chüshinishni ilgiri sürüshke tayan'ghan idi.... Xiyanetchilik we aldamchiliqqa tayinip hoquqni tutup turuwatqanlar shundaqla öktichilerning awazini boghuwatqanlar tarixning xata teripideturghanlardur. Lékin biz musht atmaqchi bolghanlargha qolimizni uzitimiz." - Usa pirizinti barak obama.

Öktichilerning awazini boghuwatqan öktichilerning awazini boghuwatqan DUQ, UAA, ETIC we radio
Mesulliri tarixning xata teripide halak bolmaqchimusiler?

Eger uaa ning we radioning dimokratiyege qarshi rezillikliri ustidin pirizdint obamagha xet yizip gipining inawitini surushte qilish kirek.


Dud teshkilati
Teyyarlighuchi: sidiqhji. Musa (diplom arxitiktur)
Info@uyguria.Chom
Tel:0049 069 150 45453

Unregistered
21-04-09, 18:51
Well, I think after these pages of exchange of idea, it just confirms my original idea that ethnic nationalism all or kinds, is stupid, dangerous and plainly a virus.

To a certain extend some ignorant Han Chinese might feel Han chauvinism because of history, personally there is no "Han nationalism" in the real sense. When I traveled to Hong kong, I have to use English more often because I can't really speak Cantonese and their mandarin is poor.

With increase globalism and inter-marriage with minority, there will be only one "Chinese" in the civic sense. No more Han Chinese, uyghur or Tibetan. And I'm seeing more and more movement into this direction.

Can there only be one East -Turkistanis and no chinese in the civic sense? i like that hahaha you are a funny guy

Unregistered
21-04-09, 19:52
Yo calm it down. That could happen only if there was alot of intermarriage in east turkestan, what is all that uyghur written saying?

Unregistered
22-04-09, 00:15
Hi, my handle is obtuse_edge, I am a new member.

Yakshimusiz. I am Han Chinese, but grew up in the US, so I am Chinese American. I have been to Xinjiang, in fact, I have studied a lot about Uighurs, Central Asia and Islam. I often return back to China to travel or visit relatives.

I want to know what the goal of this forum is? Is it independence? Or to change the human rights situation?

I agree with you that China needs to dramatically change its human rights record. No matter how many benefits the state gives to minorities, without political expression and the freedom to express your feelings in a safe manner, there is no dignity. Actually, this goes for all Chinese citizens, but in Xinjiang, there is extra attention paid to the Uighurs. China's policy is counteractive, nothing can resolve the anger without freedom of expression and honest discussion, instead of just repeating the same tired Communist propaganda. Some Han Chinese like to point out that the govt. gives preferential policies to minorities based on college admission, birth control, etc. I think that these kind of policies can never make up for political repression and the inability to define your own culture on your own terms. I often thought that if I was Uighur, I would be among the most militant too.

As for independence, I don't think that's even a possibility. China will never allow Xinjiang to become an independent nation, it is too valuable. Also, it's not necessarily in the economic interests of Uighurs to become independent as well, China will become the world's superpower in twenty years, Uighurs have access to the future's largest economic power. Perhaps in the future when China becomes a democracy, Uighurs can form political lobby groups that may have some influence on China's foreign policy, in that vein, Uighurs might become one of the world's most influential Moslem groups as it may have influence in the world's superpower.

Anyways, those are my ideas. Feel free to challenge, criticize or agree. Thank you. Ramat Sizge!

Let me get this straight, You're against Uighur Independence correct? If you are then you are for the ethnic cleasning of uighurs, you are for the genocide and the terror that communist china is inflicting upon them. You are for inhumanity.... because the truth is unless the Uighurs fully gain independence China will alwasy opress them in one manner or another. The true solution is Independence. Now if you have a problem with Uighur independence, I strongly urge you to waste your time elsewhere. Just because you speak the uighur langulage doesn't mean you're a friend. If your against Uighur Independence, your against democracy.... humanity. It's nice that you have some concern but don't let your false pride for china's evil doing stop you from supporting the moral thing... the right thing... independence for Uighurs.

Unregistered
22-04-09, 03:32
Let me get this straight, You're against Uighur Independence correct? If you are then you are for the ethnic cleasning of uighurs, you are for the genocide and the terror that communist china is inflicting upon them. You are for inhumanity.... because the truth is unless the Uighurs fully gain independence China will alwasy opress them in one manner or another. The true solution is Independence. Now if you have a problem with Uighur independence, I strongly urge you to waste your time elsewhere. Just because you speak the uighur langulage doesn't mean you're a friend. If your against Uighur Independence, your against democracy.... humanity. It's nice that you have some concern but don't let your false pride for china's evil doing stop you from supporting the moral thing... the right thing... independence for Uighurs.

Hey well I don't really think he's against Uyghur independence, he just thinks in practical terms and according to what he says. I think, well ok I'm Han I think if China continues this mistreatment then you guys should make your own nation. If you guys dont wanna be part of China then don't be. The guy is interested in Uyghurs, and I think you should appreciate it since language is an inseperable part of culture and language could be a road to friendship.

Xiao Liu
22-04-09, 05:52
Hey man, well the guy does know about diversity, I mean inter marriage does happen, and its also a way of increasing diversity. there will always be pures of one kind, but intermarriages are happening. its nothing bad to my point of view, but you may object.
There is no such thing as "pure" of one kind, only imaginary social constructs.

I am "Han Chinese" by descent, by it is nothing more than an temporary identity.

Now it is the international age of globalism, trade, internet and immigration.

Whether "independence" or not it is just a change of passport, a useless piece of paper. Non-Uyghurs and uyghurs will always be there together, embracing a stable and well-off tomorrow. I urge those people, whatever their political inclination, gave up the bloody us against them mentality.

Unregistered
22-04-09, 06:05
Can there only be one East -Turkistanis and no chinese in the civic sense? i like that hahaha you are a funny guy
You can call it apple or orange as you like. The fact is now and in the future people there will speak the same language, eat the same Junk food, watch the some Hollywood movies and work in the same place to earn money.

Change a passport or a color of world map will not change anything. Real influence comes from Wal-mart and McDonalds, not your "tradition" or "identity".

Unregistered
23-04-09, 11:05
Get out of here

Unregistered
23-04-09, 17:49
Hey chill out!!!! Stop telling people to just get out whenever you want. Aren't we here to talk? Is that really too hard? I didn't write the mcdonalds comment just so u know, that was another guy. Well hes just trying to say that the world is becoming more globalized, that it influences our cultures i guess?

Ms'ian Chinese
13-07-09, 11:40
This world has enough problem. All man are borthers and come from the same source (Almighty God). All peace loving people do not condone violence. Look at the example of Gandhi and Martin Luther King. Am I Han Chinese? You tell me. My parents were from GuangDong Province and left China when the Communist take over China. They settled in Malaysia. Malaysia has three main enthic groups - Malay, Indian and Chinese and there are also other small group of tribal and mixed race people. The constituition was formed based on the US. All Malays who are born are automatically Muslims. Indian are mostly Hindus and some are christians and the Chinese are mainly Taoist/Buddhists and Christians.

Read what is happening in Malaysia. The Malays are discriminating against other races and they are muslims. The gov't give cheap loan to the malays, free scholarship, certain amount of entries into the universities reserved for them - about 65% and job advertised with the big letter "BUMIPUTRA ONLY" (Bumiputra means son of the soil in sanskrit language). I was born there and why am I not Son of the Soil?Are all Muslims bad? By no mean. Who are the bad people? It is the one who have the absolute power. So, my brothers and sisters, stop sowing hatred about each other and show compassion to your fellow human. For your life on earth is short and you return back to the maker. Dust you come and dust you will return. You come with nothing and you will take nothing with you. Who will remember you when you die? It is what you did to each other that you will be remembered by. So, in short, discrimination is evil and it is a sin against our maker. Stop blaming and start living and make a differences in others life.

Unregistered
13-07-09, 12:36
maybe you were right in some point, thanks for your interested , I realize that even thought you have been to East Turkestan you did not realize any single things about a Freedom or Human Rights ....etc, because if you did you would have understand the situation what is actually going on there and you will start talking about same things as we did, because you are a Han Chinese , every things there looks perfect and alright for you , coz you did not even grown up there you can't even imagine how the Uyghur people are suffering at the moment, so I will recommended you to stop where you are, because what ever you saying will be the same as Han chinese and chinese government!

you said that "we won't be Independent " but I want to tell you that you will see, coz this world is small world , what goes around what comes around, every one will deserve what they done!

Unregistered
14-07-09, 03:08
YOU KNOW WELL ,chines eat beiby they dont respect religun, they are non religus that is we dont like them they are most dengrus pepole in the world?

Uyghur
14-07-09, 06:23
All human will genocide Chinese,,because you are animal

Unregistered
14-07-09, 12:26
soyumluk kerindaxlirim uyghur diyarimizda mahsus tarbiyalangan , uyghurqini uyghurdak sozlaydigan hanzu ixpiyon samandak jik , hazirmu tor batlirimizni astin ustin kiliwatkanla dal axundak tarbilanganla . xunga bundak koy terisiga orangan borilaga hargiz ixinip ozimizni awara kilmayli.

Unregistered
14-07-09, 12:37
Hello,

I am half German, half Turkish, and both my halfs do not like what China is doing there.

I consider the area that you talk about as East-Turkistan.

My Turkish half tells you: East-Turkistan is my country, the Uyghurs are my people, their language is my language, it is my culture..., and I want to see my culture alife, developing, and NOT being suppressed or destroyed by China!

Why don`t you simply learn a Turkish language, discover the existence of East-Turkistan and its beauty, love etc?! Maybe you`ll like it better than Chinese culture.

My German half tell you that China is acting like Nazis in the 3rd Reich; almost worse because East-Turkistan is even not Chinese territory.

China has problems: China is over-populated, has not enough resources, has an absolutely old-fasioned political system...

East-Turkistan wants to have nothing to do with China`s problems! If China wants energy from East-Turkistan then they need to ask the people of East-Turkistan, i.e. the Uyghurs, whether they may purchase some energy from them!

Hej, guy, you live in the USA. Don`t the Chinese press restrictions, for example, look incredibly ridiculous to you? You do not assume that the rest of the world wants to obey Chinese law and order, do you?? :)

You know, we can all live in peace and harmony. It only requires a few things: sensitivity, respect etc. Our world is richer and has more space for people with a large diversity of cultures. Wiping out cultures is nothing but insanity, underdeveloped behaviour, terrorism...

Do you think I would want to be executed for being Turkish and saying the name of the heart-land of my people, i.e. East-Turkistan, aloud?

I mean, that is nuts, isn`t it?

Why don`t you young Chinese simply stand up and create a new policy?