PDA

View Full Version : whether Islam the cause, or we need reform....



ras
01-02-05, 21:29
I felt some time that, whether accepting Islam in 12th century rendered us to have our culture, politics, and out liberty demolished.

There are loads of reasons, I could say, were cause of them.

The first, If we were not Muslim, there would not be Appak Guja, who sold his daughter to Chinese, in order to get Chinese Army's help to rule the East Turkistan.

The second, the Muslim has a very idealistic philosophy of controlling people that all man kind is creatures of god and they will be ruled by a person who was sent by Allah. So, on this, we will lose our liberty, and instead we get equality, that every one is equal under the god, but lose still liberty, and freedom. ...


I hope one day, all of us would come to one idea as Patrick Henry said, "give me liberty, or give me death."

Uyghur
02-02-05, 01:02
I do not think accepting Islam as our religion in the 11th century did anything harmful to us culturally and politically, and we have been fighting harder for our freedem and independence since then.

Culturally, although we had created a vibrant culture along the silk road in the pre-islamic era (Thosand cave paintings, Buddist sculptures and writings), accepting Islam enriched our culture more. "Qutadghu-Bilik" of Yusuf Has Hajip and "Diwanu-Lughatiti-Turk" of Mahmud Kasghari are few examples. And, the Qarahanilar Dynasty is one of the most shining page of our history.

Although, invitation of Apak Ghuja of the Manjurs is one of the darkest spot in Uyghur history, nevertheless, it was Islam who gave an identity to the people of the Tarim Basin to fight against Manju/Chinese tyranny. If you read Chinese sources, you would know that Hujas had fought tirelessly against the Manju/Chinese rule throughout the 18th century. Almost every revolution in our post-islamic history against the invaders was brought up in the name of Islam, including our two recent Republics in the 1930s and 40s. This is a fact that nobody can ignore.

uinsan
02-02-05, 01:58
I responded you, once before, when you had started a gossip on a Uyghur boy. This time you started again knowing nothing about "Appahghoja's daughter". The Ghoja had never sold his daughter to Chinese. No Uighur has ever sold his daughter to a Chinese so far. If you meant Iparhan, she was a very brave woman we Uighurs should proud of. Iparhan was the wife of one of Apahghoja's grandsons who fought against Manchu and Chinese invaders. In the battle, Iparhan was captured and forcefully sent to the Manchu King as she was very beautiful. She had all the time refused to be a wife of the King. She protected her dignity in expence of her life. She was killed!!!

Islam is a very beautiful religion if we use it correctly.

uyghuradvice
02-02-05, 05:11
While you are saying those, keep one thing in your mind, Strong Karahan Kaghanete’s state religion was Islam as well. Never the Appaq Hoja was Islam Supporter or Islamic Person in his life. What he did did not meet the terms the Islam or what it meant. If you have chance read some more books about Iparhan and what she did, then you can say ‘his’ daughter’ or etc. If we all have the same dignity, braveness or patriotic felling towards our country we won’t be in the situation.
Iparhan was a Muslim lady as well. Don’t blame Islam for your fortune, what can you do if you Christianity or Buddhist. At the moment Only Islam are making the clear difference between you and Chinese. Imagine if you are Christianity or Buddhist you can marry her or him, you eat whatever they eat. You live as they live. At the end of the days what will left is name Uyghur , rest will die sooner then ever.
In 1949 there were about 56 nationality and most of them they had their culture, religion cutoms and other relevant national identity, what left now?
In front of you a strong nation with strong survival ability. To face them you have to have strong something????? U don’t have that kind of strong dignity as Iparhan Had? You don’t have that kind of Patriotism as Iparhan had? You don’t have that kind of Braveness that Iparhan Had? what we have at the moment is small tiny cultural relics ? You have no politics, no Geography, no economy no language ( it became already extinct in couple of years ). How can you stand to this enemy with the voice of couple organization? With the couple of people outside of the country? Think only thing they want to destroy is you belief, the belief that father believed for thousand year? The belief that they scared the belief that I am proud?
That is the thing that we rely on?!

If don’t know something just keep quite, good boy !!!!

To RAS


I felt some time that, whether accepting Islam in 12th century rendered us to have our culture, politics, and out liberty demolished.


The first, If we were not Muslim, there would not be Appak Guja, who sold his daughter to Chinese, in order to get Chinese Army's help to rule the East Turkistan.
Answer : Tibet and Mongolia is not a Muslim state , but they are still under the PRC

The second, the Muslim has a very idealistic philosophy of controlling people that all man kind is creatures of god and they will be ruled by a person who was sent by Allah. So, on this, we will lose our liberty, and instead we get equality, that every one is equal under the god, but lose still liberty, and freedom. ...
Answer: It not only the philosophy of the Islam every religion had the same believe , Christianity had stronger idealistic philosophy controlling people, if you look at the history of the Europe you can see it clearly thay came this situation only after they created a secularity state.


I hope one day, all of us would come to one idea as Patrick Henry said, "give me liberty, or give me death."

Answer: You don’t need to mention some other people’s quotation.
We had that kind of sayings as well. I don’t need to find out those for you try to find among your people.

ras
02-02-05, 10:22
to uyghuradvice,

So why you are under the Chinese Rule, though, I am afraid.

You are such a great,and you have had a great culture and religion, and education. So again, why you are here under sombody's mercys.

You have failed, becuase the Islam is very volunerable religon, and you and me uneducated iliterate who does not know what is right and wrong.

Back to reality, if you are so great,please again, why you are still fighting for you independence? You have never had your independence since 1860.

Chumule
02-02-05, 16:48
Salam Brother Ras,
I sincerely think that you should learn more about history and Islam. Understanding and practising Islam in a wrong way (extreme, fundamatalist way) might lead to backwardness of a people (including the Uyghurs), but it is nowhere close to what you had claimed that we are under Chinese rule because of Islam. LEARN AND THINK, before you CLAIM!




ras Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> to uyghuradvice,
>
> So why you are under the Chinese Rule, though, I
> am afraid.
>
> You are such a great,and you have had a great
> culture and religion, and education. So again, why
> you are here under sombody's mercys.
>
> You have failed, becuase the Islam is very
> volunerable religon, and you and me uneducated
> iliterate who does not know what is right and
> wrong.
>
> Back to reality, if you are so great,please again,
> why you are still fighting for you independence?
> You have never had your independence since
> 1860.
>

uinsan
03-02-05, 00:46
It is a waste of time to persuade or try to convince a person like "Ras". He is a narrow minded person. However, Uyghurs are Muslim, Uyghurs believe in Islam, this is the reality no one is able to change this.

Sssss
05-02-05, 18:44
Ras,

You are absolutely right here. And this is amangle of expereinces you have had.

Right, we need to think about these things. Why we are under that regime? Why over 1 billoin Chinese still do not have the thoughts of liberty and freedom, becasue they have not had any a libeterty in thier lives. Where as Uighurs, they had liberty and freedom, but the Islamic thought had distroyed thouhgts toward to freedom and liberty.

m-karahan
16-02-05, 00:55
Dear All,

I am reserching on the roots of ancient religions of Asia on the Turkic society all the way from Eastern Turkistan to Turkey. What I am after is actually interesting ties that could give me new ideas for my new exibition. You can check out my amateur web site www.m-karahan.com to have some info. Thanx