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12-10-06, 14:08
Uyghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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There were actually no nation called Uyghurs in East Turkistan 2500 years ago, and the inhabitants of Central Asia were not Turks as well. Who can tell me the relationship between present Uyghurs and ancient Uyghurs who esteblished the Uyghur Empire in modern Mogolia? The name of Uyghur came to the history in two distinct times. One is when it was time for Uyghur Empire which overthrew the Gok Turk Empire, and later was overthrown by the Kyrgyzs. The ancient Uyghurs were only Turks, and were not a seperate nation. If they were Uyghurs, like the modern Uyghurs now, why did they clain themselves as Turks after their big move to Central Asia from Mongolian Steppe? Why did Mahmoud Kashigari claim themselves as Türks, not Uyghurs? It's certain that, he wrote about a country which was named Uyghur in his book 'Divanu Loghatit Türk´, and it was close to Türk's border. As the centuries went by, the people of Central Asia preferd to call themselves as Muslims, not Uyghurs, nor Türks. They had already forgotten who they had been, and who they were. The whole Central Asian Steppe was called Turan. However, after the arrival of Russians, this area had a new name Eastern and Western Turksitan, all of inhabitants were called Turks of Central Asians, except Kazaks and Kyrgyzs. There were three languages were spoken in this area.

1. Arabic. It served as a holy, religious language.2. Turkish, or Chaghatoy Turkish, which served as a daily language, or converstaonal language.
And the last one Persian served as a Cultural language. When it's time for the Soviet to govern this area, they made up many races here, such as: Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uyghur, Turkmen etc. This is the result of Soviet. Then there were the nations called Uzbek , Uyghur, Kazakh, Kyrgyz,...etc. Turks of Central Asia no longer existed.

Before the occupation of Türks in central asia, there had been living Iranic people. During the Ghinggiz Khan's ruling time, numbers of Mongols arrived to Central Asia, and make the origion more complicated, more confused. So we even cannot be clear about who we are, who we were.
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12-18-2005, 01:10 AM #2
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It`s a bull shit .ignorant guy
I can tell you later about this
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12-18-2005, 01:11 AM #3
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It`s a bull shit .ignorant guy
I can tell you later about this
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12-18-2005, 03:46 AM #4
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I agree this: The ancient Uyghurs were only Turks, and were not a seperate nation.

at that time Turks were not a seperate nation like at present !
The modern Turkic nations descendents of the uyghurs(ancient time they only called turk).
the uzbaks and other turkic nations were seperated from uyghurs
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12-19-2005, 05:34 AM #5
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uyghur 840-yildin 10 esirler ilgiri jelbkar Kashigheriyede__ kokartning
(pamirning)kun'gey we teskey terefleride bar erdi! mildiye 840-yilidin keyin bolsa uyghurlar qirghizlar terefiden gumran etilgen dewletini qayta
tiklidi hem samaniy shahliridin zemin tartiwaldi!u zamanlarda uyghurlar
ilimde yuksek pellige yetken hem islam nuri bilen imangha kelip islamni
sherqqe kengeytish uchun xoten,idiquttiki uyghurlargha ghazat urushi qoz-
ghighan!bu urush tarixta kem uchraydighan 100 yilliq urushning biri bolup
qalghan,islamgha kirgen uyghurlar kapir uyghurlardin ozini perqliq tutush
uchun ozlirini "turk"bayriqi astigha jemiyligen!shuning bilen taki 15-esirgi-
che turpan idiqut uyghurliri "uyghur"namida qalghan! 15-esrde bu nammu
yoqalghan!chunki idiqut bu chaghda islamgha kirip "kapir" degen sozge
simwol bolup qalghan "uyghur" degen namni biraqla chorup tashlighan!
netijide , putkul yurtimiz "sherqiy turkistan" dep atalghan!peqet miladiye
1930-yillarda ottura asiyadiki tunji marksizmchi AbdullahRozi Baqiyev degen kishining teshebbusi bilen toshkentte bir yighin chaqirilip,"uyghur"
nami eslige kelturulgen!mushu mezgilgiche putkul uyghurlar yatlarning
qarishida turkiyche sozleydighan Kashigheriyelikler yaki "sherqiyturkistan-
liqlar" , dep atalghan bolsa , ozimiz tilimizni turkiy,yurtimizni xotenlikler,
qeshqerlikler, aqsuluqlar, korliliqlar,turpanliqlar,qambilliqlar(qumulluqlar) ,
ililiqlar... dep atap kelduq! bular kokartning kun'giyidikiler idi!
kokartning teskiyidikiler qandaq boldi? qazaqlar , qirghizlar "SART"DEP
ATIGHANLAR DEL UYGHUR BOLMAY NEME? 1500-yili ikki derya arisigha
kirgen Shahbexitxan(Babur bowimiz"sheybaq"dep setlep atighan ozbekler
dahiysi Sheybanixan) uyghurlarning barlas uruqidin chiqqan emir TOMUR
ning axirqi ewladi ZahiriddinMuhemmed Baburni Ferghanedin qoghliwetip
ozbek xanliqini qurghan! shuningdin keyin esliy uyghur bolghan ikki derya
arisidiki "turk"ler ozbek xanliqi puqrasi bolup qaliwergen!emma ozbek bolup ketmigen! buni ezip sozlisem sizlerge kitab yezip bersem bolidu! bu-
ning uchun en'giliye BBC radiosining programma ishliguchisi Arslan Qoziev
yazghan<<ferghane oymanliqidiki din amili>>degen maqalini korsingiz
uyghurning ozbekke qandaqlarche qoshulup ketkinini bileleysiz! barlasni
uyghur qewmi, deginimde <<mong'ghullarning mexpiy tarixi>> da mong-
ghul ittipaqigha kirgen barlaslarning mong'ghul uruqi emesliki qeyt qilin-
ghan! bu heqte FRANCE tarixshunasi M.GROUSSET tetqiq qilip Aqsaq Tomurning bowiliri mong'ghul emes,turk idi, ching'gizxanning gherbke
yurush qilishidiki sebdishi idi , deydu! buning bilen barlaslarning turk iken-
liki eniqlandi, emma ching'gizxan dewride mong'ghul bozqirlirida turk yoq
idi,uyghur bar idi!
Abdullah RoziBaqiyev ozichila uyghur, degen namni eslige kelturmigen,
bu yerde rus turkloglirining siyasiy muddiasi ap-ashkare emesmu?
men chet'el tillirini bilmeymen, emma ozbek tetqiqatchisi Qadir Ekber
bu heqte materiallar barliqini manga nechche ret eytqan idi!
Mehmud Kashigherining ozini uyghur, demiginini chushenmek bek asan,
hetta buyuk bowimiz Elishir Newaiy hem ozini uyghur,demigen!emma uyghurlashqan mong'ghullarning doghlat oghlanliridin Mirza Heyder eytqan
emesmu?
10 nechche yildin beri tetqiqatini japaliq yurguzuwatqan uyghur alimi-
din biri hazir qolidiki ashkarilanmighan materiallarni retlewatqidek! ajayip
bir tarix ashkarilinip ilim sahesige qarang'ghuluq yorutulghsi!
chet tili bilmiginim uchun "Ikram" ependi hawale qilghan materialni
bilishke muweppeq bolalmighinimdin bek okunimen! imkan bolsa terjime
qilip qoyghan bolsingiz, uyghurgha sawabliq ish qilghan bolattingiz!
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12-19-2005, 05:36 AM #6
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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uyghur 840-yildin 10 esirler ilgiri jelbkar Kashigheriyede__ kokartning
(pamirning)kun'gey we teskey terefleride bar erdi! mildiye 840-yilidin keyin bolsa uyghurlar qirghizlar terefiden gumran etilgen dewletini qayta
tiklidi hem samaniy shahliridin zemin tartiwaldi!u zamanlarda uyghurlar
ilimde yuksek pellige yetken hem islam nuri bilen imangha kelip islamni
sherqqe kengeytish uchun xoten,idiquttiki uyghurlargha ghazat urushi qoz-
ghighan!bu urush tarixta kem uchraydighan 100 yilliq urushning biri bolup
qalghan,islamgha kirgen uyghurlar kapir uyghurlardin ozini perqliq tutush
uchun ozlirini "turk"bayriqi astigha jemiyligen!shuning bilen taki 15-esirgi-
che turpan idiqut uyghurliri "uyghur"namida qalghan! 15-esrde bu nammu
yoqalghan!chunki idiqut bu chaghda islamgha kirip "kapir" degen sozge
simwol bolup qalghan "uyghur" degen namni biraqla chorup tashlighan!
netijide , putkul yurtimiz "sherqiy turkistan" dep atalghan!peqet miladiye
1930-yillarda ottura asiyadiki tunji marksizmchi AbdullahRozi Baqiyev degen kishining teshebbusi bilen toshkentte bir yighin chaqirilip,"uyghur"
nami eslige kelturulgen!mushu mezgilgiche putkul uyghurlar yatlarning
qarishida turkiyche sozleydighan Kashigheriyelikler yaki "sherqiyturkistan-
liqlar" , dep atalghan bolsa , ozimiz tilimizni turkiy,yurtimizni xotenlikler,
qeshqerlikler, aqsuluqlar, korliliqlar,turpanliqlar,qambilliqlar(qumulluqlar) ,
ililiqlar... dep atap kelduq! bular kokartning kun'giyidikiler idi!
kokartning teskiyidikiler qandaq boldi? qazaqlar , qirghizlar "SART"DEP
ATIGHANLAR DEL UYGHUR BOLMAY NEME? 1500-yili ikki derya arisigha
kirgen Shahbexitxan(Babur bowimiz"sheybaq"dep setlep atighan ozbekler
dahiysi Sheybanixan) uyghurlarning barlas uruqidin chiqqan emir TOMUR
ning axirqi ewladi ZahiriddinMuhemmed Baburni Ferghanedin qoghliwetip
ozbek xanliqini qurghan! shuningdin keyin esliy uyghur bolghan ikki derya
arisidiki "turk"ler ozbek xanliqi puqrasi bolup qaliwergen!emma ozbek bolup ketmigen! buni ezip sozlisem sizlerge kitab yezip bersem bolidu! bu-
ning uchun en'giliye BBC radiosining programma ishliguchisi Arslan Qoziev
yazghan<<ferghane oymanliqidiki din amili>>degen maqalini korsingiz
uyghurning ozbekke qandaqlarche qoshulup ketkinini bileleysiz! barlasni
uyghur qewmi, deginimde <<mong'ghullarning mexpiy tarixi>> da mong-
ghul ittipaqigha kirgen barlaslarning mong'ghul uruqi emesliki qeyt qilin-
ghan! bu heqte FRANCE tarixshunasi M.GROUSSET tetqiq qilip Aqsaq Tomurning bowiliri mong'ghul emes,turk idi, ching'gizxanning gherbke
yurush qilishidiki sebdishi idi , deydu! buning bilen barlaslarning turk iken-
liki eniqlandi, emma ching'gizxan dewride mong'ghul bozqirlirida turk yoq
idi,uyghur bar idi!
Abdullah RoziBaqiyev ozichila uyghur, degen namni eslige kelturmigen,
bu yerde rus turkloglirining siyasiy muddiasi ap-ashkare emesmu?
men chet'el tillirini bilmeymen, emma ozbek tetqiqatchisi Qadir Ekber
bu heqte materiallar barliqini manga nechche ret eytqan idi!
Mehmud Kashigherining ozini uyghur, demiginini chushenmek bek asan,
hetta buyuk bowimiz Elishir Newaiy hem ozini uyghur,demigen!emma uyghurlashqan mong'ghullarning doghlat oghlanliridin Mirza Heyder eytqan
emesmu?
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12-19-2005, 10:30 AM #7
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Re: Uyghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelken
There were actually no nation called Uyghurs in East Turkistan 2500 years ago, and the inhabitants of Central Asia were not Turks as well. Who can tell me the relationship between present Uyghurs and ancient Uyghurs who esteblished the Uyghur Empire in modern Mogolia? The name of Uyghur came to the history in two distinct times. One is when it was time for Uyghur Empire which overthrew the Gok Turk Empire, and later was overthrown by the Kyrgyzs. The ancient Uyghurs were only Turks, and were not a seperate nation. If they were Uyghurs, like the modern Uyghurs now, why did they clain themselves as Turks after their big move to Central Asia from Mongolian Steppe? Why did Mahmoud Kashigari claim themselves as Türks, not Uyghurs? It's certain that, he wrote about a country which was named Uyghur in his book 'Divanu Loghatit Türk´, and it was close to Türk's border. As the centuries went by, the people of Central Asia preferd to call themselves as Muslims, not Uyghurs, nor Türks. They had already forgotten who they had been, and who they were. The whole Central Asian Steppe was called Turan. However, after the arrival of Russians, this area had a new name Eastern and Western Turksitan, all of inhabitants were called Turks of Central Asians, except Kazaks and Kyrgyzs. There were three languages were spoken in this area.

1. Arabic. It served as a holy, religious language.2. Turkish, or Chaghatoy Turkish, which served as a daily language, or converstaonal language.
And the last one Persian served as a Cultural language. When it's time for the Soviet to govern this area, they made up many races here, such as: Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uyghur, Turkmen etc. This is the result of Soviet. Then there were the nations called Uzbek , Uyghur, Kazakh, Kyrgyz,...etc. Turks of Central Asia no longer existed..

Well Turkistan area still exists.


Quote:
Before the occupation of Türks in central asia, there had been living Iranic people. During the Ghinggiz Khan's ruling time, numbers of Mongols arrived to Central Asia, and make the origion more complicated, more confused. So we even cannot be clear about who we are, who we were.

I dont think that, because mongols and Turks also did let people move deep into europe or the middle east (magyars, bulgars, sogdaks) in the time they where ruling, maybe you have heard of mass migrations of Turks/Mongols by Timurlenk into anatolia and Iran.

Dont believe that western and iranian bullshit about that the real inhabitans of central asia and Turkey are someother people then Turks. An example about Turkey, they want to "proof" that there are more greeks, kurds and other ethnics then Turks in Turkey (about 4% turanids is the claim). So we must been a super-race-people to control alll over that area and call it Turkey or Turkistan, dont you think that?
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12-19-2005, 10:52 AM #8
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Hi, Uyghur Oghli,

great thanks and respect for your posts. I'd like to share the ideas with you, can you kindly tell me where you are now?

Thanks
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12-19-2005, 10:55 AM #9
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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It's interesting that our avators are same. Actually, I do not really appreciate him in certain points, how do you think about him?

Men sizning uningga bo'lgan ko'z qarashliringizni bilgum bar, raxmat.
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12-19-2005, 10:56 AM #10
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Asilda men Uyg'urlarni qattiq hurmat qilaman. Birinchi marta uyg'ur tilini internetdan eshitganimda, birinchi marta uyg'urcha kuylarni eshitganimda etim jimirlab ketgan, chunki bizga bu qadar yaqin millatni birinchi tanishim edi o'shanda.
Endi birodar, bugun uyg'urlarning boshiga tushgan tobe'likdan mening xam yuragim achiydi, ularni ozod bo'lishlarini istayman.
Ammo ba'zan siz va boshqa sizga o'xshaganlar O'zbeklar haqida bepisand gapirganingizda va bizni to'liq uyg'ur deb ataganingizda biroz g'ashim keladi. Umuman siz Uyg'ur millatining Turk ekanligiga aqlingiz yetgan bo'lsa, u holda, boshqa birodar millatlarni sizdan bezdiradigan mayda millatchilikka berilmang. Sizlardan qattiq iltimos, shu O'zbeklarni Uyg'ur demangiz, chunki agar biz Uyg'ur bo'ganimizda bizni Uyg'ur degan bo'lishardi. Ammo ikki millat xam Turk xalqlari ekani to'g'ri. Shu sababdan, O'zbeklar Uyg'ur demasdan, O'zbek va Uyg'ur asli bir, tagi Turk desangiz olam guliston.


Quote:
kokartning teskiyidikiler qandaq boldi? qazaqlar , qirghizlar "SART"DEP
ATIGHANLAR DEL UYGHUR BOLMAY NEME?

Sart degan atama, ma'lum bir millat yoki elatga nisbatan aytilmagan, bu atama ko'chmanchilar tomonidan Turkistonda o'troq turmush tarziga ega bo'lgan barcha aholiga ishlatilgan.
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Peace without justice is tyranny.......


Erkin matbuot millatning tili va ko'z-qulog'i; korrupciya/poraxo'rlik taraqqiyot kishanidir. Erkin matbuotsiz va korrupciya botqog'iga botgan millat oyoq-qo'li kishanlangan, ko'r, kar, va soqov odamga o'xshaydi.
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12-20-2005, 12:49 AM #11
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Muhlis,

sizning yazmiliringizga ko'p tashakkur. Men Uyghur bo'larmin, ham sizga oxshash O'zbeklarni Uyghurlargha ang yeqin kiladig'an bir millat dap qarayman. Ottura Asiaydiki millatlardin meni ang jelb qilidighinmu ham O'zbeklardur, man ang berishni arzulaydighan jaymu dal O'zbekistandur. Uyghur ham Oz'beklarning tili bir, xam dilimu bir. Man O'zbeklarga ko' xurmat bildururman.
Shunga sizning aytkanliringizga man tomom qushularman. Milliy madaniyat jahattiki yeqinliqlarnh saqlab qelish ham ikki millatka paydiliqtur. O'zbeklar asli Uyg'ur erdi deyish xato. emma O'zbeklar bilan Uyg'urlar bir millat erdi, Stalinning siyasity bilan bul Turklar bir biridin ayrilip kattilar. Navaiy, buyuk bovimiz, xam Uyghurlarningmu ham O'zbeklarningmu buyuk shairi dur.
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12-20-2005, 01:07 AM #12
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelken
Muhlis,

sizning yazmiliringizga ko'p tashakkur. Men Uyghur bo'larmin, ham sizga oxshash O'zbeklarni Uyghurlargha ang yeqin kiladig'an bir millat dap qarayman. Ottura Asiaydiki millatlardin meni ang jelb qilidighinmu ham O'zbeklardur, man ang berishni arzulaydighan jaymu dal O'zbekistandur. Uyghur ham Oz'beklarning tili bir, xam dilimu bir. Man O'zbeklarga ko' xurmat bildururman.
Shunga sizning aytkanliringizga man tomom qushularman. Milliy madaniyat jahattiki yeqinliqlarnh saqlab qelish ham ikki millatka paydiliqtur. O'zbeklar asli Uyg'ur erdi deyish xato. emma O'zbeklar bilan Uyg'urlar bir millat erdi, Stalinning siyasity bilan bul Turklar bir biridin ayrilip kattilar. Navaiy, buyuk bovimiz, xam Uyghurlarningmu ham O'zbeklarningmu buyuk shairi dur.

Baraka toping.
O'zbek va Uyg'ur asli Turk. Navoiyni yoki Boburni O'zbek yoki Uyg'ur degan odam savodsizdir.
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Xalq dengizdir, Xalq to'lqindir, Xalq kuchdir,
Xalq isyondir, Xalq olovdir, Xalq o'chdir
Abdulhamid Sulaymon o'g'li Cho'lpon

Peace without justice is tyranny.......


Erkin matbuot millatning tili va ko'z-qulog'i; korrupciya/poraxo'rlik taraqqiyot kishanidir. Erkin matbuotsiz va korrupciya botqog'iga botgan millat oyoq-qo'li kishanlangan, ko'r, kar, va soqov odamga o'xshaydi.
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12-20-2005, 01:42 AM #13
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Yelken :

I apoligize what i said to you first

men deslapte digan suzlurum uchun sizdin kachurum soraymen,chunki hitingizdiki bezi jaylarni korup uzumni tutalmay qalghan edim.
mining bu munazire torihga tunji qitim kilishim ,shundaqla uzumning tarix toghurisida bekla sawatsiz ikanlikimni his qildim.sizning koprek telim birishingizni umud qiliman.
menmu u kishi toghurluq bilidighanlirim bakla az ,manga u kishi toghurluq sozlap biramsiz?

men kashgar din , hazir urumchi da
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12-20-2005, 02:06 AM #14
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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[quote=MUHLIS]Asilda men Uyg'urlarni qattiq hurmat qilaman. Birinchi marta uyg'ur tilini internetdan eshitganimda, birinchi marta uyg'urcha kuylarni eshitganimda etim jimirlab ketgan, chunki bizga bu qadar yaqin millatni birinchi tanishim edi o'shanda.
Endi birodar, bugun uyg'urlarning boshiga tushgan tobe'likdan mening xam yuragim achiydi, ularni ozod bo'lishlarini istayman.
Ammo ba'zan siz va boshqa sizga o'xshaganlar O'zbeklar haqida bepisand gapirganingizda va bizni to'liq uyg'ur deb ataganingizda biroz g'ashim keladi. Umuman siz Uyg'ur millatining Turk ekanligiga aqlingiz yetgan bo'lsa, u holda, boshqa birodar millatlarni sizdan bezdiradigan mayda millatchilikka berilmang. Sizlardan qattiq iltimos, shu O'zbeklarni Uyg'ur demangiz, chunki agar biz Uyg'ur bo'ganimizda bizni Uyg'ur degan bo'lishardi. Ammo ikki millat xam Turk xalqlari ekani to'g'ri. Shu sababdan, O'zbeklar Uyg'ur demasdan, O'zbek va Uyg'ur asli bir, tagi Turk desangiz olam guliston.


men degan suzlarim uchun sizdin kachurum sorayma .
aslida menmu uzbaksitan ve uzbaklarni shundak hurmat qikar edim.uzbaklarni uz kirindishim dep qaraytim,biraq yekenqi nachcha yildin biri uyghurlaning uzbaksitanda horlinivatqan ve kamsitilganlikini anglap qattiq
narazi boldum.amdi sizga ohshash uzbak kirindashlarimizning barliqidin shundaq hosh boldum.sizning degan suzlurungizga kop tashakkur .
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12-20-2005, 02:10 AM #15
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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MUHLI :

men degan suzlarim uchun sizdin kachurum sorayma .
aslida menmu uzbaksitan ve uzbaklarni shundak hurmat qikar edim.uzbaklarni uz kirindishim dep qaraytim,biraq yekenqi nachcha yildin biri uyghurlaning uzbaksitanda horlinivatqan ve kamsitilganlikini anglap qattiq
narazi boldum.amdi sizga ohshash uzbak kirindashlarimizning barliqidin shundaq hosh boldum.sizning degan suzlurungizga kop tashakkur .
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tarhan
12-10-06, 18:44
Hormetlik qerindexim, Aldibilen UYGHUR atalghusi andin TURUK we baxqa qebile atalghusi barliqqa kelgen, buninggha ixining.



Uyghurs in Central Asian Steppe

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There were actually no nation called Uyghurs in East Turkistan 2500 years ago, and the inhabitants of Central Asia were not Turks as well. Who can tell me the relationship between present Uyghurs and ancient Uyghurs who esteblished the Uyghur Empire in modern Mogolia? The name of Uyghur came to the history in two distinct times. One is when it was time for Uyghur Empire which overthrew the Gok Turk Empire, and later was overthrown by the Kyrgyzs. The ancient Uyghurs were only Turks, and were not a seperate nation. If they were Uyghurs, like the modern Uyghurs now, why did they clain themselves as Turks after their big move to Central Asia from Mongolian Steppe? Why did Mahmoud Kashigari claim themselves as Türks, not Uyghurs? It's certain that, he wrote about a country which was named Uyghur in his book 'Divanu Loghatit Türk´, and it was close to Türk's border. As the centuries went by, the people of Central Asia preferd to call themselves as Muslims, not Uyghurs, nor Türks. They had already forgotten who they had been, and who they were. The whole Central Asian Steppe was called Turan. However, after the arrival of Russians, this area had a new name Eastern and Western Turksitan, all of inhabitants were called Turks of Central Asians, except Kazaks and Kyrgyzs. There were three languages were spoken in this area.

1. Arabic. It served as a holy, religious language.2. Turkish, or Chaghatoy Turkish, which served as a daily language, or converstaonal language.
And the last one Persian served as a Cultural language. When it's time for the Soviet to govern this area, they made up many races here, such as: Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uyghur, Turkmen etc. This is the result of Soviet. Then there were the nations called Uzbek , Uyghur, Kazakh, Kyrgyz,...etc. Turks of Central Asia no longer existed.

Before the occupation of Türks in central asia, there had been living Iranic people. During the Ghinggiz Khan's ruling time, numbers of Mongols arrived to Central Asia, and make the origion more complicated, more confused. So we even cannot be clear about who we are, who we were.
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12-18-2005, 01:10 AM #2
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It`s a bull shit .ignorant guy
I can tell you later about this
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12-18-2005, 01:11 AM #3
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It`s a bull shit .ignorant guy
I can tell you later about this
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12-18-2005, 03:46 AM #4
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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I agree this: The ancient Uyghurs were only Turks, and were not a seperate nation.

at that time Turks were not a seperate nation like at present !
The modern Turkic nations descendents of the uyghurs(ancient time they only called turk).
the uzbaks and other turkic nations were seperated from uyghurs
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12-19-2005, 05:34 AM #5
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uyghur 840-yildin 10 esirler ilgiri jelbkar Kashigheriyede__ kokartning
(pamirning)kun'gey we teskey terefleride bar erdi! mildiye 840-yilidin keyin bolsa uyghurlar qirghizlar terefiden gumran etilgen dewletini qayta
tiklidi hem samaniy shahliridin zemin tartiwaldi!u zamanlarda uyghurlar
ilimde yuksek pellige yetken hem islam nuri bilen imangha kelip islamni
sherqqe kengeytish uchun xoten,idiquttiki uyghurlargha ghazat urushi qoz-
ghighan!bu urush tarixta kem uchraydighan 100 yilliq urushning biri bolup
qalghan,islamgha kirgen uyghurlar kapir uyghurlardin ozini perqliq tutush
uchun ozlirini "turk"bayriqi astigha jemiyligen!shuning bilen taki 15-esirgi-
che turpan idiqut uyghurliri "uyghur"namida qalghan! 15-esrde bu nammu
yoqalghan!chunki idiqut bu chaghda islamgha kirip "kapir" degen sozge
simwol bolup qalghan "uyghur" degen namni biraqla chorup tashlighan!
netijide , putkul yurtimiz "sherqiy turkistan" dep atalghan!peqet miladiye
1930-yillarda ottura asiyadiki tunji marksizmchi AbdullahRozi Baqiyev degen kishining teshebbusi bilen toshkentte bir yighin chaqirilip,"uyghur"
nami eslige kelturulgen!mushu mezgilgiche putkul uyghurlar yatlarning
qarishida turkiyche sozleydighan Kashigheriyelikler yaki "sherqiyturkistan-
liqlar" , dep atalghan bolsa , ozimiz tilimizni turkiy,yurtimizni xotenlikler,
qeshqerlikler, aqsuluqlar, korliliqlar,turpanliqlar,qambilliqlar(qumulluqlar) ,
ililiqlar... dep atap kelduq! bular kokartning kun'giyidikiler idi!
kokartning teskiyidikiler qandaq boldi? qazaqlar , qirghizlar "SART"DEP
ATIGHANLAR DEL UYGHUR BOLMAY NEME? 1500-yili ikki derya arisigha
kirgen Shahbexitxan(Babur bowimiz"sheybaq"dep setlep atighan ozbekler
dahiysi Sheybanixan) uyghurlarning barlas uruqidin chiqqan emir TOMUR
ning axirqi ewladi ZahiriddinMuhemmed Baburni Ferghanedin qoghliwetip
ozbek xanliqini qurghan! shuningdin keyin esliy uyghur bolghan ikki derya
arisidiki "turk"ler ozbek xanliqi puqrasi bolup qaliwergen!emma ozbek bolup ketmigen! buni ezip sozlisem sizlerge kitab yezip bersem bolidu! bu-
ning uchun en'giliye BBC radiosining programma ishliguchisi Arslan Qoziev
yazghan<<ferghane oymanliqidiki din amili>>degen maqalini korsingiz
uyghurning ozbekke qandaqlarche qoshulup ketkinini bileleysiz! barlasni
uyghur qewmi, deginimde <<mong'ghullarning mexpiy tarixi>> da mong-
ghul ittipaqigha kirgen barlaslarning mong'ghul uruqi emesliki qeyt qilin-
ghan! bu heqte FRANCE tarixshunasi M.GROUSSET tetqiq qilip Aqsaq Tomurning bowiliri mong'ghul emes,turk idi, ching'gizxanning gherbke
yurush qilishidiki sebdishi idi , deydu! buning bilen barlaslarning turk iken-
liki eniqlandi, emma ching'gizxan dewride mong'ghul bozqirlirida turk yoq
idi,uyghur bar idi!
Abdullah RoziBaqiyev ozichila uyghur, degen namni eslige kelturmigen,
bu yerde rus turkloglirining siyasiy muddiasi ap-ashkare emesmu?
men chet'el tillirini bilmeymen, emma ozbek tetqiqatchisi Qadir Ekber
bu heqte materiallar barliqini manga nechche ret eytqan idi!
Mehmud Kashigherining ozini uyghur, demiginini chushenmek bek asan,
hetta buyuk bowimiz Elishir Newaiy hem ozini uyghur,demigen!emma uyghurlashqan mong'ghullarning doghlat oghlanliridin Mirza Heyder eytqan
emesmu?
10 nechche yildin beri tetqiqatini japaliq yurguzuwatqan uyghur alimi-
din biri hazir qolidiki ashkarilanmighan materiallarni retlewatqidek! ajayip
bir tarix ashkarilinip ilim sahesige qarang'ghuluq yorutulghsi!
chet tili bilmiginim uchun "Ikram" ependi hawale qilghan materialni
bilishke muweppeq bolalmighinimdin bek okunimen! imkan bolsa terjime
qilip qoyghan bolsingiz, uyghurgha sawabliq ish qilghan bolattingiz!
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12-19-2005, 05:36 AM #6
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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uyghur 840-yildin 10 esirler ilgiri jelbkar Kashigheriyede__ kokartning
(pamirning)kun'gey we teskey terefleride bar erdi! mildiye 840-yilidin keyin bolsa uyghurlar qirghizlar terefiden gumran etilgen dewletini qayta
tiklidi hem samaniy shahliridin zemin tartiwaldi!u zamanlarda uyghurlar
ilimde yuksek pellige yetken hem islam nuri bilen imangha kelip islamni
sherqqe kengeytish uchun xoten,idiquttiki uyghurlargha ghazat urushi qoz-
ghighan!bu urush tarixta kem uchraydighan 100 yilliq urushning biri bolup
qalghan,islamgha kirgen uyghurlar kapir uyghurlardin ozini perqliq tutush
uchun ozlirini "turk"bayriqi astigha jemiyligen!shuning bilen taki 15-esirgi-
che turpan idiqut uyghurliri "uyghur"namida qalghan! 15-esrde bu nammu
yoqalghan!chunki idiqut bu chaghda islamgha kirip "kapir" degen sozge
simwol bolup qalghan "uyghur" degen namni biraqla chorup tashlighan!
netijide , putkul yurtimiz "sherqiy turkistan" dep atalghan!peqet miladiye
1930-yillarda ottura asiyadiki tunji marksizmchi AbdullahRozi Baqiyev degen kishining teshebbusi bilen toshkentte bir yighin chaqirilip,"uyghur"
nami eslige kelturulgen!mushu mezgilgiche putkul uyghurlar yatlarning
qarishida turkiyche sozleydighan Kashigheriyelikler yaki "sherqiyturkistan-
liqlar" , dep atalghan bolsa , ozimiz tilimizni turkiy,yurtimizni xotenlikler,
qeshqerlikler, aqsuluqlar, korliliqlar,turpanliqlar,qambilliqlar(qumulluqlar) ,
ililiqlar... dep atap kelduq! bular kokartning kun'giyidikiler idi!
kokartning teskiyidikiler qandaq boldi? qazaqlar , qirghizlar "SART"DEP
ATIGHANLAR DEL UYGHUR BOLMAY NEME? 1500-yili ikki derya arisigha
kirgen Shahbexitxan(Babur bowimiz"sheybaq"dep setlep atighan ozbekler
dahiysi Sheybanixan) uyghurlarning barlas uruqidin chiqqan emir TOMUR
ning axirqi ewladi ZahiriddinMuhemmed Baburni Ferghanedin qoghliwetip
ozbek xanliqini qurghan! shuningdin keyin esliy uyghur bolghan ikki derya
arisidiki "turk"ler ozbek xanliqi puqrasi bolup qaliwergen!emma ozbek bolup ketmigen! buni ezip sozlisem sizlerge kitab yezip bersem bolidu! bu-
ning uchun en'giliye BBC radiosining programma ishliguchisi Arslan Qoziev
yazghan<<ferghane oymanliqidiki din amili>>degen maqalini korsingiz
uyghurning ozbekke qandaqlarche qoshulup ketkinini bileleysiz! barlasni
uyghur qewmi, deginimde <<mong'ghullarning mexpiy tarixi>> da mong-
ghul ittipaqigha kirgen barlaslarning mong'ghul uruqi emesliki qeyt qilin-
ghan! bu heqte FRANCE tarixshunasi M.GROUSSET tetqiq qilip Aqsaq Tomurning bowiliri mong'ghul emes,turk idi, ching'gizxanning gherbke
yurush qilishidiki sebdishi idi , deydu! buning bilen barlaslarning turk iken-
liki eniqlandi, emma ching'gizxan dewride mong'ghul bozqirlirida turk yoq
idi,uyghur bar idi!
Abdullah RoziBaqiyev ozichila uyghur, degen namni eslige kelturmigen,
bu yerde rus turkloglirining siyasiy muddiasi ap-ashkare emesmu?
men chet'el tillirini bilmeymen, emma ozbek tetqiqatchisi Qadir Ekber
bu heqte materiallar barliqini manga nechche ret eytqan idi!
Mehmud Kashigherining ozini uyghur, demiginini chushenmek bek asan,
hetta buyuk bowimiz Elishir Newaiy hem ozini uyghur,demigen!emma uyghurlashqan mong'ghullarning doghlat oghlanliridin Mirza Heyder eytqan
emesmu?
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12-19-2005, 10:30 AM #7
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Re: Uyghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelken
There were actually no nation called Uyghurs in East Turkistan 2500 years ago, and the inhabitants of Central Asia were not Turks as well. Who can tell me the relationship between present Uyghurs and ancient Uyghurs who esteblished the Uyghur Empire in modern Mogolia? The name of Uyghur came to the history in two distinct times. One is when it was time for Uyghur Empire which overthrew the Gok Turk Empire, and later was overthrown by the Kyrgyzs. The ancient Uyghurs were only Turks, and were not a seperate nation. If they were Uyghurs, like the modern Uyghurs now, why did they clain themselves as Turks after their big move to Central Asia from Mongolian Steppe? Why did Mahmoud Kashigari claim themselves as Türks, not Uyghurs? It's certain that, he wrote about a country which was named Uyghur in his book 'Divanu Loghatit Türk´, and it was close to Türk's border. As the centuries went by, the people of Central Asia preferd to call themselves as Muslims, not Uyghurs, nor Türks. They had already forgotten who they had been, and who they were. The whole Central Asian Steppe was called Turan. However, after the arrival of Russians, this area had a new name Eastern and Western Turksitan, all of inhabitants were called Turks of Central Asians, except Kazaks and Kyrgyzs. There were three languages were spoken in this area.

1. Arabic. It served as a holy, religious language.2. Turkish, or Chaghatoy Turkish, which served as a daily language, or converstaonal language.
And the last one Persian served as a Cultural language. When it's time for the Soviet to govern this area, they made up many races here, such as: Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Uyghur, Turkmen etc. This is the result of Soviet. Then there were the nations called Uzbek , Uyghur, Kazakh, Kyrgyz,...etc. Turks of Central Asia no longer existed..

Well Turkistan area still exists.


Quote:
Before the occupation of Türks in central asia, there had been living Iranic people. During the Ghinggiz Khan's ruling time, numbers of Mongols arrived to Central Asia, and make the origion more complicated, more confused. So we even cannot be clear about who we are, who we were.

I dont think that, because mongols and Turks also did let people move deep into europe or the middle east (magyars, bulgars, sogdaks) in the time they where ruling, maybe you have heard of mass migrations of Turks/Mongols by Timurlenk into anatolia and Iran.

Dont believe that western and iranian bullshit about that the real inhabitans of central asia and Turkey are someother people then Turks. An example about Turkey, they want to "proof" that there are more greeks, kurds and other ethnics then Turks in Turkey (about 4% turanids is the claim). So we must been a super-race-people to control alll over that area and call it Turkey or Turkistan, dont you think that?
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12-19-2005, 10:52 AM #8
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Hi, Uyghur Oghli,

great thanks and respect for your posts. I'd like to share the ideas with you, can you kindly tell me where you are now?

Thanks
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12-19-2005, 10:55 AM #9
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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It's interesting that our avators are same. Actually, I do not really appreciate him in certain points, how do you think about him?

Men sizning uningga bo'lgan ko'z qarashliringizni bilgum bar, raxmat.
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12-19-2005, 10:56 AM #10
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Asilda men Uyg'urlarni qattiq hurmat qilaman. Birinchi marta uyg'ur tilini internetdan eshitganimda, birinchi marta uyg'urcha kuylarni eshitganimda etim jimirlab ketgan, chunki bizga bu qadar yaqin millatni birinchi tanishim edi o'shanda.
Endi birodar, bugun uyg'urlarning boshiga tushgan tobe'likdan mening xam yuragim achiydi, ularni ozod bo'lishlarini istayman.
Ammo ba'zan siz va boshqa sizga o'xshaganlar O'zbeklar haqida bepisand gapirganingizda va bizni to'liq uyg'ur deb ataganingizda biroz g'ashim keladi. Umuman siz Uyg'ur millatining Turk ekanligiga aqlingiz yetgan bo'lsa, u holda, boshqa birodar millatlarni sizdan bezdiradigan mayda millatchilikka berilmang. Sizlardan qattiq iltimos, shu O'zbeklarni Uyg'ur demangiz, chunki agar biz Uyg'ur bo'ganimizda bizni Uyg'ur degan bo'lishardi. Ammo ikki millat xam Turk xalqlari ekani to'g'ri. Shu sababdan, O'zbeklar Uyg'ur demasdan, O'zbek va Uyg'ur asli bir, tagi Turk desangiz olam guliston.


Quote:
kokartning teskiyidikiler qandaq boldi? qazaqlar , qirghizlar "SART"DEP
ATIGHANLAR DEL UYGHUR BOLMAY NEME?

Sart degan atama, ma'lum bir millat yoki elatga nisbatan aytilmagan, bu atama ko'chmanchilar tomonidan Turkistonda o'troq turmush tarziga ega bo'lgan barcha aholiga ishlatilgan.
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Erkin matbuot millatning tili va ko'z-qulog'i; korrupciya/poraxo'rlik taraqqiyot kishanidir. Erkin matbuotsiz va korrupciya botqog'iga botgan millat oyoq-qo'li kishanlangan, ko'r, kar, va soqov odamga o'xshaydi.
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12-20-2005, 12:49 AM #11
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Muhlis,

sizning yazmiliringizga ko'p tashakkur. Men Uyghur bo'larmin, ham sizga oxshash O'zbeklarni Uyghurlargha ang yeqin kiladig'an bir millat dap qarayman. Ottura Asiaydiki millatlardin meni ang jelb qilidighinmu ham O'zbeklardur, man ang berishni arzulaydighan jaymu dal O'zbekistandur. Uyghur ham Oz'beklarning tili bir, xam dilimu bir. Man O'zbeklarga ko' xurmat bildururman.
Shunga sizning aytkanliringizga man tomom qushularman. Milliy madaniyat jahattiki yeqinliqlarnh saqlab qelish ham ikki millatka paydiliqtur. O'zbeklar asli Uyg'ur erdi deyish xato. emma O'zbeklar bilan Uyg'urlar bir millat erdi, Stalinning siyasity bilan bul Turklar bir biridin ayrilip kattilar. Navaiy, buyuk bovimiz, xam Uyghurlarningmu ham O'zbeklarningmu buyuk shairi dur.
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12-20-2005, 01:07 AM #12
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Re: Uzghurs in Central Asian Steppe

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yelken
Muhlis,

sizning yazmiliringizga ko'p tashakkur. Men Uyghur bo'larmin, ham sizga oxshash O'zbeklarni Uyghurlargha ang yeqin kiladig'an bir millat dap qarayman. Ottura Asiaydiki millatlardin meni ang jelb qilidighinmu ham O'zbeklardur, man ang berishni arzulaydighan jaymu dal O'zbekistandur. Uyghur ham Oz'beklarning tili bir, xam dilimu bir. Man O'zbeklarga ko' xurmat bildururman.
Shunga sizning aytkanliringizga man tomom qushularman. Milliy madaniyat jahattiki yeqinliqlarnh saqlab qelish ham ikki millatka paydiliqtur. O'zbeklar asli Uyg'ur erdi deyish xato. emma O'zbeklar bilan Uyg'urlar bir millat erdi, Stalinning siyasity bilan bul Turklar bir biridin ayrilip kattilar. Navaiy, buyuk bovimiz, xam Uyghurlarningmu ham O'zbeklarningmu buyuk shairi dur.

Baraka toping.
O'zbek va Uyg'ur asli Turk. Navoiyni yoki Boburni O'zbek yoki Uyg'ur degan odam savodsizdir.
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Peace without justice is tyranny.......


Erkin matbuot millatning tili va ko'z-qulog'i; korrupciya/poraxo'rlik taraqqiyot kishanidir. Erkin matbuotsiz va korrupciya botqog'iga botgan millat oyoq-qo'li kishanlangan, ko'r, kar, va soqov odamga o'xshaydi.
MUHLIS


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12-20-2005, 01:42 AM #13
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Yelken :

I apoligize what i said to you first

men deslapte digan suzlurum uchun sizdin kachurum soraymen,chunki hitingizdiki bezi jaylarni korup uzumni tutalmay qalghan edim.
mining bu munazire torihga tunji qitim kilishim ,shundaqla uzumning tarix toghurisida bekla sawatsiz ikanlikimni his qildim.sizning koprek telim birishingizni umud qiliman.
menmu u kishi toghurluq bilidighanlirim bakla az ,manga u kishi toghurluq sozlap biramsiz?

men kashgar din , hazir urumchi da
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12-20-2005, 02:06 AM #14
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[quote=MUHLIS]Asilda men Uyg'urlarni qattiq hurmat qilaman. Birinchi marta uyg'ur tilini internetdan eshitganimda, birinchi marta uyg'urcha kuylarni eshitganimda etim jimirlab ketgan, chunki bizga bu qadar yaqin millatni birinchi tanishim edi o'shanda.
Endi birodar, bugun uyg'urlarning boshiga tushgan tobe'likdan mening xam yuragim achiydi, ularni ozod bo'lishlarini istayman.
Ammo ba'zan siz va boshqa sizga o'xshaganlar O'zbeklar haqida bepisand gapirganingizda va bizni to'liq uyg'ur deb ataganingizda biroz g'ashim keladi. Umuman siz Uyg'ur millatining Turk ekanligiga aqlingiz yetgan bo'lsa, u holda, boshqa birodar millatlarni sizdan bezdiradigan mayda millatchilikka berilmang. Sizlardan qattiq iltimos, shu O'zbeklarni Uyg'ur demangiz, chunki agar biz Uyg'ur bo'ganimizda bizni Uyg'ur degan bo'lishardi. Ammo ikki millat xam Turk xalqlari ekani to'g'ri. Shu sababdan, O'zbeklar Uyg'ur demasdan, O'zbek va Uyg'ur asli bir, tagi Turk desangiz olam guliston.


men degan suzlarim uchun sizdin kachurum sorayma .
aslida menmu uzbaksitan ve uzbaklarni shundak hurmat qikar edim.uzbaklarni uz kirindishim dep qaraytim,biraq yekenqi nachcha yildin biri uyghurlaning uzbaksitanda horlinivatqan ve kamsitilganlikini anglap qattiq
narazi boldum.amdi sizga ohshash uzbak kirindashlarimizning barliqidin shundaq hosh boldum.sizning degan suzlurungizga kop tashakkur .
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12-20-2005, 02:10 AM #15
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MUHLI :

men degan suzlarim uchun sizdin kachurum sorayma .
aslida menmu uzbaksitan ve uzbaklarni shundak hurmat qikar edim.uzbaklarni uz kirindishim dep qaraytim,biraq yekenqi nachcha yildin biri uyghurlaning uzbaksitanda horlinivatqan ve kamsitilganlikini anglap qattiq
narazi boldum.amdi sizga ohshash uzbak kirindashlarimizning barliqidin shundaq hosh boldum.sizning degan suzlurungizga kop tashakkur .
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