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Unregistered
06-10-10, 20:02
Will China negotiate with Uyghur organizations in exile? A while ago this topic came up during a conversation among some friends. The consensus was “no”. From China’s perspective there is no reason to come to the negotiation table with Uyghurs. If they are ready to accept our demands, they can simply implement the policies we desire and take credit for it rather than giving credit to us. It looks better for them to make it look like a result of natural evolution of Chinese politics rather than of pressure from Uyghur groups outside of Chinese border. Sure, China has negotiated with Tibetans. But Tibetan movement in exile is different than the Uyghur movement. Dalai Lama was a sitting King of Tibet and the Tibetan Government in Exile was a functional government when the Chinese invaded Tibet. Most importantly, Dalai Lama is still regarded as a living God by majority of the Tibetans in Tibet. Therefore, they are part of the equation of the Tibet issue, and the Chinese government could not ignore Dalai Lama and his government. At the other hand, the Chinese can afford to ignore the Uyghur movement in exile. We simply do not have the leverage the Tibetans have.

From all appearances, the Chinese authorities clearly are not sincere about the negations with Tibetans. They are simply buying time with the negotiation tactic. They must be hoping that at least Dalai Lama will disappear from the equation some day. We know China at least this much: After reviling Dalai Lama for five decades, China simply could not roll the red carpet for him at Lasa.

As to the Uyghur issue, China’s worries is about the Uyghur population within its borders. China’s policy in early years were modeled after the Soviet Union. An autonomous region in China was equivalent to a Soviet Republic. After the break-up of the Soviet Union, China seems to looking to West for a model and found the Indians as an example. But, Uyghurs are not Indians. We lived side by side with the Chinese for thousands of years. We have deeply rooted cultures, firm ethnic identity, a well-defined homeland, former empires and kingdoms, and cities with thousands of years of history. We’ve lost not just our land; we’ve lost our state. Unlike US where assimilation is necessary for its immigrant population, China is not an immigrant country. We did not come to China, China came to us. Chinese immigrants should learn the local culture and language if they want to follow the American model. But, they are imposing their culture and language on us by brutal force. It is backfiring as we’ve seen in the incidents in July 2009. Inter-ethnic violence could get worse, a lot worse in the future if China continues its grossly unfair policy. The situation is calm by all means. But, another incident like last July’s could usher in a new era of perpetual inter-ethnic violence. The thing with the violence is once it reaches a tipping point it is hard to stop. Uyghurs could potentially derail China’s plans for Central Asia and beyond and kill its ambition for being a superpower. But, this potential resides entirely within the borders of China. The outside groups have very little if any role here. All we could do is publicizing the human rights violations in China. But, China is getting quite brazen as it is convinced that it could buy the silence of the international community. In conclusion, if China is ready to accept our demands, it will not give any credit to Uyghur organizations; rather it will take credit for it themselves by bypassing the bypassing the negotiation table. It is naïve to believe China will negotiate with us.

Unregistered
06-10-10, 20:22
You are absolutely right! You already have seen that some of Uighur organizations wanted negotiate with china. as well, could be more in future. however, it is all depend on power....

Unregistered
07-10-10, 06:32
Will China negotiate with Uyghur organizations in exile? A while ago this topic came up during a conversation among some friends. The consensus was “no”. From China’s perspective there is no reason to come to the negotiation table with Uyghurs. If they are ready to accept our demands, they can simply implement the policies we desire and take credit for it rather than giving credit to us. It looks better for them to make it look like a result of natural evolution of Chinese politics rather than of pressure from Uyghur groups outside of Chinese border. Sure, China has negotiated with Tibetans. But Tibetan movement in exile is different than the Uyghur movement. Dalai Lama was a sitting King of Tibet and the Tibetan Government in Exile was a functional government when the Chinese invaded Tibet. Most importantly, Dalai Lama is still regarded as a living God by majority of the Tibetans in Tibet. Therefore, they are part of the equation of the Tibet issue, and the Chinese government could not ignore Dalai Lama and his government. At the other hand, the Chinese can afford to ignore the Uyghur movement in exile. We simply do not have the leverage the Tibetans have.

From all appearances, the Chinese authorities clearly are not sincere about the negations with Tibetans. They are simply buying time with the negotiation tactic. They must be hoping that at least Dalai Lama will disappear from the equation some day. We know China at least this much: After reviling Dalai Lama for five decades, China simply could not roll the red carpet for him at Lasa.

As to the Uyghur issue, China’s worries is about the Uyghur population within its borders. China’s policy in early years were modeled after the Soviet Union. An autonomous region in China was equivalent to a Soviet Republic. After the break-up of the Soviet Union, China seems to looking to West for a model and found the Indians as an example. But, Uyghurs are not Indians. We lived side by side with the Chinese for thousands of years. We have deeply rooted cultures, firm ethnic identity, a well-defined homeland, former empires and kingdoms, and cities with thousands of years of history. We’ve lost not just our land; we’ve lost our state. Unlike US where assimilation is necessary for its immigrant population, China is not an immigrant country. We did not come to China, China came to us. Chinese immigrants should learn the local culture and language if they want to follow the American model. But, they are imposing their culture and language on us by brutal force. It is backfiring as we’ve seen in the incidents in July 2009. Inter-ethnic violence could get worse, a lot worse in the future if China continues its grossly unfair policy. The situation is calm by all means. But, another incident like last July’s could usher in a new era of perpetual inter-ethnic violence. The thing with the violence is once it reaches a tipping point it is hard to stop. Uyghurs could potentially derail China’s plans for Central Asia and beyond and kill its ambition for being a superpower. But, this potential resides entirely within the borders of China. The outside groups have very little if any role here. All we could do is publicizing the human rights violations in China. But, China is getting quite brazen as it is convinced that it could buy the silence of the international community. In conclusion, if China is ready to accept our demands, it will not give any credit to Uyghur organizations; rather it will take credit for it themselves by bypassing the bypassing the negotiation table. It is naïve to believe China will negotiate with us.

When there is a well,there is a hope....

Unregistered
07-10-10, 17:10
Negotiate what? You know the answer already. Did Mongol negotiate with Chinese? Did Kazakh negotiate with Russia? Begging will not work in this world!
Something is not negotiable. Make it work out your way you can. Real negotiating is after that step. Negotiating for basic human rights? Freedom?
'Freedom is not free'. What that mean?
Will Tibet negotiate with current Chinese work? Yes, Until Tibetan say they fully obey Chinese leadership in their home and will not mind if someone step on their back and lead them speak/ teach Chinese to their Tibet parents. Yes, until Tibetan say they give up their traditions and culture and let Chinese digging their wealth and develop in Chinese way in their home, and then endure being discriminated for their birth background by the Chinese immigrants/invaders. Or, until Tibet become stronger that Chinese have to trick them, like Chinese and Russian tricked Uyghur in 1949, in the term of 'negotiation' blast out in the sky.
So, you want to negotiation now?

Unregistered
07-10-10, 17:30
there is a hope chinese will fell in? a negotiation well/ trap? lol. When there is a will there is a way, I guess. Make your well work, Mate.


When there is a well,there is a hope....

Unregistered
07-10-10, 18:50
Knowing your odds may help you avoid costly mistakes. There is nothing wrong with DUQ asking for negotiation. In fact they should keep asking. But, at the same time we have to keep in mind the sad reality, otherwise it could cost us. Miscalculation has led to mistakes in the past. We can't afford any more costly mistakes.


When there is a well,there is a hope....

Unregistered
07-10-10, 23:59
One important point to note, Dalai Lama and his followers in India stays with a special status: Tibetan refugees. When they travel they use a special travel document issued for Tibetans by the Tibetan government in exile and recognized by UN, they do not use Indian passport. That document says they are the citizen of Tibet, not India, nor China or any other country. But Uyghurs at the other hand are either the citizen of their residing country or on their way to become citizen. The problem in this scenario is that once you become a citizen of a different country you become a foreigner to China and East Turkistan and China is not likely to negotiate with foreigners on the fate of a land it considers its territory.

Unregistered
08-10-10, 00:36
Does East Turkistan recognized by any UN country that allow travel with East Turkistan passport? Would that will be a goal to achieve for the refegees/asylums and to many uyghur that do not recognize China as their country? If it is not so crazy to ask.

Unregistered
08-10-10, 08:18
Whether Uyghurstan recognized by UN or EU or US etc. is not a big issue.
The only point is Uyghurs must try all possible ways (including useless peacefull demonstrations as well as "blood for blood action !) to make Chinese aware & understand that they can not have a save life without giving freedom to Uyghurs ! And only then both sides will come to talk automaticaly.
Do not believe that China will be next super power !





Does East Turkistan recognized by any UN country that allow travel with East Turkistan passport? Would that will be a goal to achieve for the refegees/asylums and to many uyghur that do not recognize China as their country? If it is not so crazy to ask.

Unregistered
08-10-10, 11:00
The fact that many Uyghurs abroad are citizens of other countries is not the issue at point. There are also millions of Uyghurs living in neighbouring countriers for centuries, tough some of them moved from East Turkestan just last century, others have been living in this region for centuries even before the new Republics created under present names. Regardless of the travel documents, every human being feels at home in his/her own country. There millions of Han chinese living abroad and posessing citizenship of the respective country, and they still feel chinese.

The real issue is the Uyghurs are one of the ancient peoples of Central Asia, they have a living culture and a well defined territory at present, regardless of the historical facts. The point is that sooner or later China has to negotiate with the real representatives of the Uyghurs, be it diaspora or local if it wants stability in its backyard. And without stability in East Turkestan China would not be able to compeete for the natural resources of Central Asia. As everyone knows the apple pie around the globe is getting smaller and smaller. Central Asian region posess a lot of untapped resources which everyone is eager to have bigger piece. For the chinese leadership its much better to realize this fact sooner then later. That means, China must negotiate with the Uyghurs for its own strategic, political and economic interests....

Unregistered
08-10-10, 13:54
Chinese Liu xiaobo is awarded peace price for his nonviolence struggle for democracy movement in China. I hope this award will have some impact on those 'communist ' Chinese mind. However from the spokesman announcement it is clear that is tough.
We still have to struggle in the darkness, living with the hope. Will western civilization bring light for us or the evil part of the eastern Chinese civilizations (esp. the self-indulged granular pursuant and self-centered arrogances and deceives) will come to the dead end and dissolve by itself?
God bless Uyghur! We believe in God, who created the rules of all natures. Inheriting from the wise forbears, informed by the prophets and learning from the Western civilization, we are discovering the rules, following and utilizing God created rules, we will find a better way and will get rewarded same as the others after this darkness peroid.
Let’s pray.

Unregistered
08-10-10, 20:05
Uyghurs have a saying,"kuruk gepke mushuk aptapka chikmaptu", meaning if you do not have enough leverage no one takes you seriously. The stability you mentioned is determined by the Uyghurs in East Turkistan, not by the Uyghur organizations outside. Uyghur organizations outside has a different function. The point here is all the signs points to a "No" for the answer for the question of whether China will come to negotiation table. Therefore, it is wise to invest your resources accordingly. If your odd is less than 5%, you do not want to place a huge bet. You have weigh your chances of success carefully before making a big bet. Bad judgement only leads to costly behaviors and wastefulness. Uyghur organizations can't affort to make another bad decision after the Cambodia disaster, otherwise the fallout could exhaust the good will and patience of members. Organizations can't take public support for granted and could survive without it.



The fact that many Uyghurs abroad are citizens of other countries is not the issue at point. There are also millions of Uyghurs living in neighbouring countriers for centuries, tough some of them moved from East Turkestan just last century, others have been living in this region for centuries even before the new Republics created under present names. Regardless of the travel documents, every human being feels at home in his/her own country. There millions of Han chinese living abroad and posessing citizenship of the respective country, and they still feel chinese.

The real issue is the Uyghurs are one of the ancient peoples of Central Asia, they have a living culture and a well defined territory at present, regardless of the historical facts. The point is that sooner or later China has to negotiate with the real representatives of the Uyghurs, be it diaspora or local if it wants stability in its backyard. And without stability in East Turkestan China would not be able to compeete for the natural resources of Central Asia. As everyone knows the apple pie around the globe is getting smaller and smaller. Central Asian region posess a lot of untapped resources which everyone is eager to have bigger piece. For the chinese leadership its much better to realize this fact sooner then later. That means, China must negotiate with the Uyghurs for its own strategic, political and economic interests....

Unregistered
08-10-10, 21:17
Joseph Stalin is not Russian.


Negotiate what? You know the answer already. Did Mongol negotiate with Chinese? Did Kazakh negotiate with Russia? Begging will not work in this world!
Something is not negotiable. Make it work out your way you can. Real negotiating is after that step. Negotiating for basic human rights? Freedom?
'Freedom is not free'. What that mean?
Will Tibet negotiate with current Chinese work? Yes, Until Tibetan say they fully obey Chinese leadership in their home and will not mind if someone step on their back and lead them speak/ teach Chinese to their Tibet parents. Yes, until Tibetan say they give up their traditions and culture and let Chinese digging their wealth and develop in Chinese way in their home, and then endure being discriminated for their birth background by the Chinese immigrants/invaders. Or, until Tibet become stronger that Chinese have to trick them, like Chinese and Russian tricked Uyghur in 1949, in the term of 'negotiation' blast out in the sky.
So, you want to negotiation now?

Unregistered
09-10-10, 01:06
My friend: the whole issue is how you make China to relize the fact !
And if China have had relized such facts, today's relation between Chinese and Uyghurs will be like those of between Russian and Kazakhs in Kazachstan !

You can not expect much from Chinese unless you force them to talk and if you are in position to force chinese to talk, then it may no necessity at all !
"A donkey will never be a horse even if this donkey went to Mekka !"




The fact that many Uyghurs abroad are citizens of other countries is not the issue at point. There ...........................................
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...................... For chinese leadership its much better to realize this fact sooner then later. That means, China must negotiate with the Uyghurs for its own strategic, political and economic interests....

Unregistered
09-10-10, 04:02
Uyghurs have a saying,"kuruk gepke mushuk aptapka chikmaptu", meaning if you do not have enough leverage no one takes you seriously. The stability you mentioned is determined by the Uyghurs in East Turkistan, not by the Uyghur organizations outside. Uyghur organizations outside has a different function. The point here is all the signs points to a "No" for the answer for the question of whether China will come to negotiation table. Therefore, it is wise to invest your resources accordingly. If your odd is less than 5%, you do not want to place a huge bet. You have weigh your chances of success carefully before making a big bet. Bad judgement only leads to costly behaviors and wastefulness. Uyghur organizations can't affort to make another bad decision after the Cambodia disaster, otherwise the fallout could exhaust the good will and patience of members. Organizations can't take public support for granted and could survive without it.

You are right, the stability in East Turkestan is decided by the people at home, not by the diaspora orgaqnizations! The diaspora organiozations are the voice of the people in East Turkestan, because the people at home do not have the freedom of expression. What do you think, how long would survive the chinese regime in East turkestan without the presence of millions of the chinese security forces, including the army, paramilitary troops of the bintuan, police and other survailance units? So, its better for the Beijing leadership to face the reality sooner then later to implement the constitutionally guaranteed rights of its people be in mainland China or in East Turkestan, if it wants to keep China together in any form of governance. You will see as soon as the Chinese government launch negotitations and begin to implement a policy of co-existance with the Uyghur peole, the situation will change positively. I am sure these will be for the intereset all... No force in the world can deny the right for freedom and democracy for ever. As I said, the chinese regime must talk to the real representatives of the Uyghur people...
The history is full of odds like ... which at the beginning were less then %5. The point is, first of all you believe in what you want!!! Sooner or later, justice will prevail.

Unregistered
09-10-10, 06:27
there is a hope chinese will fell in? a negotiation well/ trap? lol. When there is a will there is a way, I guess. Make your well work, Mate.

Spelling error ..... And what do you want to say chinky? of course i am not here to jiang daoli with you.....
Uyghurs will have our own independent country in the near future......i am 100 sure about it....you know why? because East Turkistan is uighur home-land....the chinese lies didnt work...all that propaganda went to no vail,hahaha chinky start packing already.....my well is going to work and you know it :-) 5000 years of civilization hurarray backwarded pests

Unregistered
09-10-10, 09:49
The Chinese know exactly what they are doing. They were convinced that they can swallow not just the land but also the whole people. If Uyghurs were not able to do anything when China was weak and there were very small Chinese presence there why would they be concerned now when they are at their strongest in their recent history? As I said before, if they are ready to give up their evil policy in East Turkistan, they can do it without involving the Uyghur organizations outside. Once they start to respect the human right of Uyghurs, Uyghur organizations outside will lose their platform and become irrelevant. Of course, we can try to reinvent ourselves under different banners then like independence, but we won't have the same vitality as now. So, for China there is no incentive to talk to Uyghur organizations at all. What kind of threat can you pose if China does not talk? Say it differently, what can you do if China does not talk to you? Hold demonstrations, expose human rights violations, what else? Nothing that China really cares about. Even if Uyghurs stop talking Chinese atrocities, the International Human Rights organizations and media will keep talking as long as the violations exist in China. Besides, the international community is doing nothing substantial to pressure China on this issue. So, China does not need to worry about Uyghur organizations that much. But, they will worry about the situation in East Turkistan if violence escalates there and start to affect its economic and political ambitions. China's economy heavily relies on the oil comes or passes through East Turkistan. An effective resistance movement there could disrupt the supply lines, interethnic violence could discourage Chinese settlers to go there both for safety and ecnonomic reasons (unstable environment not conduicive to economy). So, untimately, Chinese regime recognizes violence only, because that is what they believe in. It may be 21st century, but they still believe power comes out from the barrels of guns. So, if China decides to change its policy in East Turkistan it will do so because of the people inside not because of the people outside. Tibet is a different story. Tibetans inside would not accept a settlement that does not include Dalai Lama and his government in exile. At the other hand, Uyghurs at home could move forward without us if given a chance. So, it pays to be a little realistic.



You are right, the stability in East Turkestan is decided by the people at home, not by the diaspora orgaqnizations! The diaspora organiozations are the voice of the people in East Turkestan, because the people at home do not have the freedom of expression. What do you think, how long would survive the chinese regime in East turkestan without the presence of millions of the chinese security forces, including the army, paramilitary troops of the bintuan, police and other survailance units? So, its better for the Beijing leadership to face the reality sooner then later to implement the constitutionally guaranteed rights of its people be in mainland China or in East Turkestan, if it wants to keep China together in any form of governance. You will see as soon as the Chinese government launch negotitations and begin to implement a policy of co-existance with the Uyghur peole, the situation will change positively. I am sure these will be for the intereset all... No force in the world can deny the right for freedom and democracy for ever. As I said, the chinese regime must talk to the real representatives of the Uyghur people...
The history is full of odds like ... which at the beginning were less then %5. The point is, first of all you believe in what you want!!! Sooner or later, justice will prevail.

Unregistered
09-10-10, 13:51
Lol, mate, me 'Uyghurky', assume you did not spell wrong and do have expected you intentionly wrote it that way to express a different meaning. I hope your well work, like chinky's 'well war' with Japaness before. Or, you are designing an inteligent well as well? I am assisting you but not the opposit way, mate. :) . I do suggest you take a humor pill and laugh fisrt. lol.


Spelling error ..... And what do you want to say chinky? of course i am not here to jiang daoli with you.....
Uyghurs will have our own independent country in the near future......i am 100 sure about it....you know why? because East Turkistan is uighur home-land....the chinese lies didnt work...all that propaganda went to no vail,hahaha chinky start packing already.....my well is going to work and you know it :-) 5000 years of civilization hurarray backwarded pests

Unregistered
09-10-10, 16:02
The Chinese know exactly what they are doing. They were convinced that they can swallow not just the land but also the whole people. If Uyghurs were not able to do anything when China was weak and there were very small Chinese presence there why would they be concerned now when they are at their strongest in their recent history? As I said before, if they are ready to give up their evil policy in East Turkistan, they can do it without involving the Uyghur organizations outside. Once they start to respect the human right of Uyghurs, Uyghur organizations outside will lose their platform and become irrelevant. Of course, we can try to reinvent ourselves under different banners then like independence, but we won't have the same vitality as now. So, for China there is no incentive to talk to Uyghur organizations at all. What kind of threat can you pose if China does not talk? Say it differently, what can you do if China does not talk to you? Hold demonstrations, expose human rights violations, what else? Nothing that China really cares about. Even if Uyghurs stop talking Chinese atrocities, the International Human Rights organizations and media will keep talking as long as the violations exist in China. Besides, the international community is doing nothing substantial to pressure China on this issue. So, China does not need to worry about Uyghur organizations that much. But, they will worry about the situation in East Turkistan if violence escalates there and start to affect its economic and political ambitions. China's economy heavily relies on the oil comes or passes through East Turkistan. An effective resistance movement there could disrupt the supply lines, interethnic violence could discourage Chinese settlers to go there both for safety and ecnonomic reasons (unstable environment not conduicive to economy). So, untimately, Chinese regime recognizes violence only, because that is what they believe in. It may be 21st century, but they still believe power comes out from the barrels of guns. So, if China decides to change its policy in East Turkistan it will do so because of the people inside not because of the people outside. Tibet is a different story. Tibetans inside would not accept a settlement that does not include Dalai Lama and his government in exile. At the other hand, Uyghurs at home could move forward without us if given a chance. So, it pays to be a little realistic.

The diaspora Uyghur organizations were established to publisize the Uyghur issue around the world and try to do something to ease the pflight of the people at home. My conviction is that if the Chinee government start to talk seriously with the representatives of the Uyghur people in East Turkestan, few of the diaspora organizations would be against it. For what reason china would talk with uyghurs is secondary, the real issue is that Beijing realizes the
reality and acts accordingly.

Though we vhave a common eenemy, the Tibetan isssue and his hliness the Daalay Lama are different subjects. We should not compare our situation with the Tibetans'. We have different culture, and recent events shows that Uyghurs can effort strong resistance. As mentioned above, his Holiness the Dalay Lama can mobilize more psychological pressure on China then the Uyghur diaspora organizations. Wether china reracts to international pressure, is another question, but surely Beijing regime should be able to react, if its strategik, regional ve economic interests are at stake.
I think the Beijing leadership soon would realize that a cstable East Turkestan and a happy Uyghur population is more beneficial to its national interest than the present situation. Hopefully china would learn from the history and work out a new visionary policy... in dealing with the Uyghurs of East Turkestan.

Wether we Uyghurs abroad posess an East Turkestani passport or wether our land is recognized by any country around the , including the UN, is a secondary matter at the present. The fact is the we have a homeland which is occupied by a foreign force with whom we have no cultural, historical, ethnic and linguistic ties. The fact is that despite a syswtematic policy of sinization for more than a half century, sole majority of the Uyghur people of East Turkestan are against chinese rule, tough some of them can not say it openly, as foreign observers notice.

Unregistered
09-10-10, 19:35
Maybe WUC can make Uyghur passport for Uyghurs, whatever it recognized by others or not. It might be symbolic or will have some functions in some conditions. Just a thought.

Unregistered
09-10-10, 21:04
Tibetan's struggle may be better known outside, but for China the Uyghur issue is a more worrying. As long as China's economy keeps growing, China can have western corporations in its pocket. Since capitalistic societies are ruled by capitalists through these corporations, China does not have to worry too much about pressure from western governments. In fact, you can feel that the Tibetan movement is gradually being eclipsed by the western infatuation with the Chinese economy. It has lost some its shine since the 90's. China is clearly hoping that it will gradually fade away, especially after Dalai Lama. But for Uyghur issue China's worry is not about international pressure, it is about armed resistance inside East Turkistan. So far armed resistance has not been a significant problem, mainly because people do not have access to weapons. But as China increases cross-border activity with the countries west of East Turkistan, this situation could change. If drugs could be smuggled into, why not weapons? As long Uyghurs remain angry at the government, it is a matter of time before that anger explodes like it did last year. It was a spontaneous expression. Imagine if it was channeled through a resistance movement in a more organized way. China's economic artery is in East Turkistan. The stakes are very high.

From China's perspective, the Uyghur issue and Tibet issue are linked together. They have the same status now and have to have same status after any policy change. They have to be solved together. I cannot imagine one gets solved without the other. It will be interesting to see whether the Tibetans or the Uyghurs will find the solution first.

Unregistered
09-10-10, 23:47
So, If I understood right, your primary matter is 'Chinee government start to talk seriously with the representatives of the Uyghur people in East Turkestan'. Your secondary matter is 'Wether we Uyghurs abroad posess an East Turkestani passport or wether our land is recognized by any country around the , including the UN, is a secondary matter at the present.'

Did Chinese governemnt seriously talk with Tibetan? After Dalai Lama do not want to independent? will they? If they don't, will they fullfil your primary matter?

Even if they realize the 'serious uyghur problem', like they have been realized it for more than 60 years, they will have their own intelligencies to format and to deal with this 'domestic issue'. Do they want to negotiate if they don't have to, or when they ignoring Uyghur's voice? How to make them have to, to make your primary matter work? Can you work out some other matters that their intelligences have no way to deal with it by themselves? Something have to be bigger than your primary matter that they think, and have to deal with the 'negotiation' but not forces.

Any nonviolent method will move the chinese to the table? Or, we find a method that don't need to ask them to the table when they don't want to.

Somebody trying to make a well, hope it is a magical well.






The diaspora Uyghur organizations were established to publisize the Uyghur issue around the world and try to do something to ease the pflight of the people at home. My conviction is that if the Chinee government start to talk seriously with the representatives of the Uyghur people in East Turkestan, few of the diaspora organizations would be against it. For what reason china would talk with uyghurs is secondary, the real issue is that Beijing realizes the
reality and acts accordingly.

Though we vhave a common eenemy, the Tibetan isssue and his hliness the Daalay Lama are different subjects. We should not compare our situation with the Tibetans'. We have different culture, and recent events shows that Uyghurs can effort strong resistance. As mentioned above, his Holiness the Dalay Lama can mobilize more psychological pressure on China then the Uyghur diaspora organizations. Wether china reracts to international pressure, is another question, but surely Beijing regime should be able to react, if its strategik, regional ve economic interests are at stake.
I think the Beijing leadership soon would realize that a cstable East Turkestan and a happy Uyghur population is more beneficial to its national interest than the present situation. Hopefully china would learn from the history and work out a new visionary policy... in dealing with the Uyghurs of East Turkestan.

Wether we Uyghurs abroad posess an East Turkestani passport or wether our land is recognized by any country around the , including the UN, is a secondary matter at the present. The fact is the we have a homeland which is occupied by a foreign force with whom we have no cultural, historical, ethnic and linguistic ties. The fact is that despite a syswtematic policy of sinization for more than a half century, sole majority of the Uyghur people of East Turkestan are against chinese rule, tough some of them can not say it openly, as foreign observers notice.

Unregistered
10-10-10, 11:15
I think we are not on a stage of negotiations. We are just demanding of returning back our land from Chinese occupation. After returning our land from Chinese (it is just like Chinese returned back their land of hong kong and macao), we will start o negotiate with Chinese if they will lease their land for us (it is just like they leased hong kong and macao to Britain and the other guy).

Unregistered
10-10-10, 11:48
I think we are not on a stage of negotiations. We are just demanding of returning back our land from Chinese occupation. After returning our land from Chinese (it is just like Chinese returned back their land of hong kong and macao), we will start o negotiate with Chinese if they will lease their land for us (it is just like they leased hong kong and macao to Britain and the other guy).

You are really a funny man.. Do we have any paper like the chinese had from Britain?

Of course, Allah asanliq bersun, We hope we will get back our land. however, when you think logically, it looks like impossible. but we have to continue for fight for our freedom and land.

Unregistered
10-10-10, 14:48
I think we are not on a stage of negotiations. We are just demanding of returning back our land from Chinese occupation. After returning our land from Chinese (it is just like Chinese returned back their land of hong kong and macao), we will start o negotiate with Chinese if they will lease their land for us (it is just like they leased hong kong and macao to Britain and the other guy).

To make what your posted to happen. Uyghur have to be as strong as Britian and need to lease a piece of their land for some purpose. The history is, Britain lended money for Manchu Empire to invade Uyghur country then leasted chinese land HONGKONG from Manchu Empire. Chinese tried to continue occupy uyghur's land afte the Manchu empire was overturned. If Bratian would opologize to Uyghur for their doing in the history that make uyghur people suffering until now, would make people respect them. While chinese is able to ask the HONGKONG back, why Uyghur can not ask our land back as well? Because one is leased and the other is occupied?

If the first part is due to colonism history, the second part of chinese occupying actually is the continuation of the colonism by the half colonied one. The chinese did not stop there but further trying to make up this land their historical habitat form the anciant time because of the short peroid of occupying of this land by their ancester. If this logic work, then they have to surrender their whole country to Mongols and Manchus or some part of its land to Japan, Korea etc. as well. The Chinese stratergy is not to convince the world but just educate and convince their own obediant people to believe their false theory or to keep silent to their false theroy.
Few times in the history, Uyghur's leaders were either driven out of the Uyghur country or murdered by chinese, but uyghur people never accepted chinese rules from the ancient time! Uyghur were, indeed resistant to any invaders, though failed sometimes but enjoyed longer time of success and developed unique culture.

It is different from the US possess the Hawaii, Puterico, Alaska and Southern States like Texas, New Mexico etc., when compare to the chinese occupation of Uyghur or Tibetan's countries etc.

When the chinese political historian wrote something up to favor their 'world center' kingdom, for sure many were just not the facts and true, they do wish their next generations and whole surrounding countries and nations are tricked and bow to their way.

Unregistered
10-10-10, 18:18
To make what your posted to happen. Uyghur have to be as strong as Britian and need to lease a piece of their land for some purpose. The history is, Britain lended money for Manchu Empire to invade Uyghur country then leasted chinese land HONGKONG from Manchu Empire. Chinese tried to continue occupy uyghur's land afte the Manchu empire was overturned. If Bratian would opologize to Uyghur for their doing in the history that make uyghur people suffering until now, would make people respect them. While chinese is able to ask the HONGKONG back, why Uyghur can not ask our land back as well? Because one is leased and the other is occupied?

If the first part is due to colonism history, the second part of chinese occupying actually is the continuation of the colonism by the half colonied one. The chinese did not stop there but further trying to make up this land their historical habitat form the anciant time because of the short peroid of occupying of this land by their ancester. If this logic work, then they have to surrender their whole country to Mongols and Manchus or some part of its land to Japan, Korea etc. as well. The Chinese stratergy is not to convince the world but just educate and convince their own obediant people to believe their false theory or to keep silent to their false theroy.
Few times in the history, Uyghur's leaders were either driven out of the Uyghur country or murdered by chinese, but uyghur people never accepted chinese rules from the ancient time! Uyghur were, indeed resistant to any invaders, though failed sometimes but enjoyed longer time of success and developed unique culture.

It is different from the US possess the Hawaii, Puterico, Alaska and Southern States like Texas, New Mexico etc., when compare to the chinese occupation of Uyghur or Tibetan's countries etc.

When the chinese political historian wrote something up to favor their 'world center' kingdom, for sure many were just not the facts and true, they do wish their next generations and whole surrounding countries and nations are tricked and bow to their way.

I got the point, to some extent; current Chinese government can represent the rights of old Manchu empire. It means of taking back Hong Kong process, the Chinese government represented the rights of Manchu. Every time of seeing the Chinese propaganda it simply states one great point repeatedly, which is they are bearing five thousand years civilization and they are also in great thinking that they have greater degree civilization than any other nation on this world. Which is indeed a good point of pride, If so, why can’t they represent old Manchu empire for a withdrawing their force from Uyghur land now? Britain, French, and Russians already come back their home now, why can’t Chinese do the same thing?

Unregistered
10-10-10, 19:50
The unfortunate fate uyghurs have been suffering is mainly from the geographical vicinity to a country (China) with 1.3 billion population and limited livable land, so don't compare China with Britain, France, or Russia in this regard. The Chinese need land to relieve from the pressure caused by the overpopulation problem, this is the most severe and brutal reality Uyghurs (and Tibetans) need to remember. The resources that the East Turkestan possesses and the strategic location where it resides are also important factories for the Chinese that they will do whatever they can to maintain their control over this land and this will result very serious and fatal consequences for Uyghurs as a distinctive nation.

I agree with the first poster of this thread that there is no point for the Chinese to negotiate with Uyghurs as they don't possess any meaningful leverage at this point. Of course, Chinese know it very well, the stability in East Turkestan is very important to them, so that is why we are hearing a lot of publicities about how they will improve the life of people there etc. and this so far is limited to economic incentives, maybe that is the most they can go.



I got the point, to some extent; current Chinese government can represent the rights of old Manchu empire. It means of taking back Hong Kong process, the Chinese government represented the rights of Manchu. Every time of seeing the Chinese propaganda it simply states one great point repeatedly, which is they are bearing five thousand years civilization and they are also in great thinking that they have greater degree civilization than any other nation on this world. Which is indeed a good point of pride, If so, why can’t they represent old Manchu empire for a withdrawing their force from Uyghur land now? Britain, French, and Russians already come back their home now, why can’t Chinese do the same thing?

Unregistered
10-10-10, 20:18
The unfortunate fate uyghurs have been suffering is mainly from the geographical vicinity to a country (China) with 1.3 billion population and limited livable land, so don't compare China with Britain, France, or Russia in this regard. The Chinese need land to relieve from the pressure caused by the overpopulation problem, this is the most severe and brutal reality Uyghurs (and Tibetans) need to remember. The resources that the East Turkestan possesses and the strategic location where it resides are also important factories for the Chinese that they will do whatever they can to maintain their control over this land and this will result very serious and fatal consequences for Uyghurs as a distinctive nation.

I agree with the first poster of this thread that there is no point for the Chinese to negotiate with Uyghurs as they don't possess any meaningful leverage at this point. Of course, Chinese know it very well, the stability in East Turkestan is very important to them, so that is why we are hearing a lot of publicities about how they will improve the life of people there etc. and this so far is limited to economic incentives, maybe that is the most they can go.

If everything will be considered based on the current reality and needs, the people will need to prepare of leaving Planet Earth by tomorrow, leave the world for Chinese, because Chinese dilemma is that they will to swallow every live and dead on this world by someday. We always live with hope, it means something will change eventually; at least the hope bears it to see the change. That is what Obama did, why can’t Uyghur see that?

Unregistered
10-10-10, 21:05
Of course the meaning of life is hoping but it depends on what you are hoping. if you are hoping to become a "Chinese" in the future and live with them peacefully then propably the Chinese will allow you to do that, and that is what Chinese are doing right now to forcefully assimilate Uyghurs, because they believe that after some time the "Uyghurs" will not pose any threat to the Chinese as those "Uyghurs" will think they are Chinese.

If you are hoping to stay Uyghur in the future, you have to do something to achieve that, it is not enough to just hope that or hope to negotiate that with Chinese.


If everything will be considered based on the current reality and needs, the people will need to prepare of leaving Planet Earth by tomorrow, leave the world for Chinese, because Chinese dilemma is that they will to swallow every live and dead on this world by someday. We always live with hope, it means something will change eventually; at least the hope bears it to see the change. That is what Obama did, why can’t Uyghur see that?

Unregistered
10-10-10, 21:06
If chinese need resources, we can offer, if they need emmigrate people we can accept the immigrants. The point is that they don't allow Uyghur to make the decision of their own fate, they don't allow Uyghur and Tibet to develop as they wished. They are trying hard to distinguish Uyghur and Tibet people as hard as they can. How many population were imported to Uyghur's land compare to all of its population? Very little. That mean they don't need to damp their people because of 'too crowed'. Compare to Japan and India, China have more land to spare. It is colonism and now more to a degree of vertial 'genocide'. The political need for Uyghur and Tibet will always there regardless of economic issues. If the location of a land and economic need become a reason to occupy, then it is true they will occupy all the land that they could in this planet sooner or later. A chinese way of colonism era maybe waiting for us. Maybe this is what the chinese 'central' mean. As all the smaller nations have been colonized and distingushed but only exist in Chinese history book.


The unfortunate fate uyghurs have been suffering is mainly from the geographical vicinity to a country (China) with 1.3 billion population and limited livable land, so don't compare China with Britain, France, or Russia in this regard. The Chinese need land to relieve from the pressure caused by the overpopulation problem, this is the most severe and brutal reality Uyghurs (and Tibetans) need to remember. The resources that the East Turkestan possesses and the strategic location where it resides are also important factories for the Chinese that they will do whatever they can to maintain their control over this land and this will result very serious and fatal consequences for Uyghurs as a distinctive nation.

I agree with the first poster of this thread that there is no point for the Chinese to negotiate with Uyghurs as they don't possess any meaningful leverage at this point. Of course, Chinese know it very well, the stability in East Turkestan is very important to them, so that is why we are hearing a lot of publicities about how they will improve the life of people there etc. and this so far is limited to economic incentives, maybe that is the most they can go.

Unregistered
11-10-10, 03:13
Do Uighurs have land outside of the east Turkistan Like Tibet’s?, is it possible to the countries who allow Uighurs to live in their lands with Uighurs own passport? I think it is impossible. Even Uighurs don't want to have own passport as they are residing in the different countries because they can't stay in these countries with Uyghur passport. The reality is not we have own passport, but the leverage we have in the world. Uighurs' problems will not be solved unless Uighurs become strong and forget the foreigners help.

Unregistered
11-10-10, 07:52
Of course the meaning of life is hoping but it depends on what you are hoping. if you are hoping to become a "Chinese" in the future and live with them peacefully then propably the Chinese will allow you to do that, and that is what Chinese are doing right now to forcefully assimilate Uyghurs, because they believe that after some time the "Uyghurs" will not pose any threat to the Chinese as those "Uyghurs" will think they are Chinese.

If you are hoping to stay Uyghur in the future, you have to do something to achieve that, it is not enough to just hope that or hope to negotiate that with Chinese.

I am just hoping that one day anyone would be able to access infinite resources. It would be the day for everyone they will stay their home; it is also a day that civilization governs the world. Technology is just updating too fast, it could happen within ten years or so. It does not exclude the Uyghur by anyways.

Unregistered
11-10-10, 11:20
Sometimes symbolistic thing do have meaning and bring inspiration to people. Sure, Uyghur can have a passport if you don't think Chinese is your lord! Maybe, In your country, YOu just have to have two passports, one is the ID for your country of citizenship, one is your Uyghur ID for citizenship for the occupied country, or a politically autonomous region, whichever you prefer. Maybe Uyghur passport will be refused for official travel ID or VISA in many countries, however, at least it is a step you recognize yourself as equal as Chinese when chinese bash you down as a secondary citizen in your homeland. Don't know if it make sense, Anyway.


Do Uighurs have land outside of the east Turkistan Like Tibet’s?, is it possible to the countries who allow Uighurs to live in their lands with Uighurs own passport? I think it is impossible. Even Uighurs don't want to have own passport as they are residing in the different countries because they can't stay in these countries with Uyghur passport. The reality is not we have own passport, but the leverage we have in the world. Uighurs' problems will not be solved unless Uighurs become strong and forget the foreigners help.

Unregistered
11-10-10, 12:23
Text book theory. Naive and wishful thinking.


I am just hoping that one day anyone would be able to access infinite resources. It would be the day for everyone they will stay their home; it is also a day that civilization governs the world. Technology is just updating too fast, it could happen within ten years or so. It does not exclude the Uyghur by anyways.