View Full Version : Let's talk about something...
I wonder why this forum has been so quiet lately. You guys all on vacation? Come on, let's talk about something, something serious and interesting, like THE US-CHINA RELATIONS AND FREE EAST TURKISTAN, or something like that. But NO GOSSIP, NO PERSONAL ATTACK! :)
Let's share our opinions that probably help us reach a better understanding about what is happening in this world.
I am looking forward to your response.
Professional Uyghur!
22-06-05, 03:41
yahshi teklip boptu, emse bashlayli.
1. Sizningche hitay qan tokmay turupla, wetendin chiqip kitemdu? shehsen men bashliq bolsam, qetiy shekilde undaq asan chiqip ketmeymen. eger kuchum yetse putun dunyani besiwalsam dep oylaymen. siz bu jehette qandaq qaraysiz?
2. Sizningche Uyghurlar urushqa kirmise, wetenni musteqil qilalamdu? meningche Uyghurlar urushqa kirse yengilip qalidu. likin Uyghurlar urushqa kirmey turup wetenni musteqil qilalmaydu. Siz bu jehette qandaq oylaysiz?
3. Sizningche Uyghurlardiki ittipaqsizliq we nadanliq qachan tugeydu? Siz bu jehette qandaq oylaysiz?
I wonder why this forum has been so quiet lately. You guys all on vacation? Come on, let's talk about something, something serious and interesting, like THE US-CHINA RELATIONS AND FREE EAST TURKISTAN, or something like that. But NO GOSSIP, NO PERSONAL ATTACK! :)
Let's share our opinions that probably help us reach a better understanding about what is happening in this world.
I am looking forward to your response.
Good questions!
1. I don't think the Chinese government will retreat from East Turkistan without a war. Keeping ET under absolute control is not only a resource issure. It is more a sovereignty issue. If chinese communists let ET go, other minorities like tibetans, Mongolians will also require independence. China has been deeply afraid of this. That is why Chinese communists have been firm in their claim that they will maintain their control in ET at any price.
2. In my opinion, our people couldn't afford a war for freedom. The largest Chinese army stationed in ET. The enemy is too strong, but we are ill-equipped, or non-equipped at all. In this case, armed resistance nothing more than sending our people to death.
Another important thing is, unfortunately, not every uighur in ET, wants freedom. I was so disappointed by some answers when I was trying to know how people think about free East Turkistan. It is hard to believe some Uighurs still think the CCP is doing good!
Since then, I realized we need to educate the people inside the country, to have them realize the importance of freedom. Because you can not liberate the opressed people soly by outside effort when those people don't have the same desire for the goal you are fighting for.
3. I am really glad you raised the last question. Many of us don't realize that the disunity is biggest problem. We don't like chinese, but we don't trust and unite with our own people. We believe we should be free, but we are not united in what we believe. If we were, we would have been free by now. : (
This is very good idea to do some active disscusion. This is even a better idea not to do personal attact.
Here is one topic, how can we try to be open minded as much as we can while keeping our identity and not to forget our dream.
Another topic, people who are outside want to fight for a free ET, however, people who are in ET, even though they want to have freedom, but if you let them choose a better living by cooperating with Chinese and fighting for freedom. Some may want to pick the first one. So, how do we understand this, and how do we fit into the situation and offer our best help.
I am interested in your second topic. Let me bring up my opinions.
I think it might be understandable that some of us choose to have 'peaceful' life rather than fighting for free ET. After all, not every person can have the same conscience and desire for independent nation. You can not force somebody to act the same way you do. Otherwise it is called dictatorship or tyranny. All you can do is to let those people realize you are doing the right thing even if they don't follow you, and NOT to let them collude with your enemy and fight against you.
What do you think?
I agree with you that we can not force others. It is easy to say when typing on line, but as a Uyghur, as a hot blooded Turk, sometimes it is hard to most of us to control our feeling. Therefore, when it comes to a point when we see our effort may not be apprieciated by some people back home, we may feel we did everything in vain.
My purpose is, let us keep our hope, and our love to our people. Whatever make them live the best, then let's support them in that way. However, at the same time, we try what we can do the best for a free ET.
Another thing is, we need to have a updated view of ET, not only the sad side. Most of us are outside ET, and our information may or may not be correct. So, I believe we should try to be able to have a correct picture of people's life there.
You are absolutely right. I definitely have the same feeling. When someone say "hey this girl is from China", when I talk about Eastern Turkistan and nobody around me has ever heard of that, I feel so humiliated. I really can not find right words to describe that kind of feeling. I guess only an uiyghur can understand this humiliation and pain.
I always think how many of us have ever asked ourselves what our people really want. We shape the issues the way we think they should be. Uiyghurs have no freedom, no rights? That is absolutely true. But how many of our people in that situation really think they are being persecuted, and have realized the importance of independent nation? And how many of you really take some time to understand the lives of the people in E.T.? Many overseas uighurs left E.T. long time ago, and are influenced by the concepts of democracy and human rights. In my opinion, it is hard to understand how people think and what they need when you are long-isolated from that particular cultural context. How can be the people eager for demoracy when they are constantly being endangered by the need of survival?
I used to blame Uiyghurs in E.T. as ignorant and hopeless, but the more I understand them, the more greatful I became for them. Because they are the people who have been attaching our land, and keeping everthing on and on. Without them, we are nothing.
So, you are a girl, :) I agree with you, we who are outside ET can not really represent ET in some sence, but we can represent Uyghurs as much as we could.
You are right that those Uyghurs who are in ET, who kept their life and identiy in the pressure, who live a life in the pressure indeed, are the real hero.
They kept art, and updated uyghur arts. They lived in the limited freedome that Chinese "gave" them. So, if we do something to take even this way, then, that is not a help.
Anyway, let's be open minded with each others, support each other, and be consistant.
As for people do not know Uyghurs, if we try 20 times, at least one or two will understand. Only thing is, they may forget, or not interested. So, maybe the best thing is we introduce them to our culture, food, art... then, tell them about politics. Not may people like politics, but most of them like food. :)
Good luck to all of us.
As a matter of fact, whether overseas uyghurs can represent the people in E.T. is not a big issue. The point is if we really understand what they need, and how we offer our help to the best interest of them. They surely need freedom. But they are facing more practical needs for survival at the moment, for example, education for children, health care, even food in some rural areas... We all know freedom doesn't come without any price. Are they willing to and ready for this sacrifice? I guess few of us can answer this question for sure.
As to the people who don't know anything about the uyghurs or E.T., sometimes I comfort myself like "that is ok, it is better than having prejudice against us." :) Because telling someone who you are is much easier than changing the biased conception in his/her mind.
By the way, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.
Personally, I have tried several things to introduce Uyghur to people arround me.
1, I told them what Chinese did to us.
2, I showed them my difference between Chinese.
3, I told them our culture.
4, I showed them our culture, showed them dance, pictures, and food.
Now, the corresponding result from these tries.
1, They realized that I hate Chinese, and went to ask Chinese and got the negative answer. So, they understood Uyghurs as someone who can not get along with Chinese.
2, The difference is there, but comparing with the difference between an Asian and An African, the difference is not so apparrent to most Americans or Europeans.
3, The finished their class papers on Uyghur Culture.
4, They loved the food, they were amazed by the dresses, knives, cloth...then they asked about the geography, and asked about history, and so on.
I am sure everyone has different try and results. But this is my expereince. So, from my own experence, I feel the best thing for me to do is to stand up as a nice and harmless person myself first. Then, show them the quality of Uyghurs, and show the nice and interesting part in our culture. Then, when they are intersed in these, tell them about the politics. But still, I did not have good luck in telling politics.
So, I wish you guys good luck.
Erkinuq
Unregistered
29-06-05, 02:49
I am so impressed by your experiences. Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to make such a big difference yet.
As you said, most foreigners are interested in Uyghur culture, music or food rather than their sufferings under the chinese government. Some of them even think chinese rule is Uyghurs' unescapable destiny. But I don't think it that way. If you look back to the history, almost every struggle for justice has finally achieved a victory, Blacks in United States obtained the same rights and treatment as Whites(at least legally), India got independence from British colony, the oppressed people overthrew corrupted Soviet Union... I believe the oppressive chinese regime will collapse one day. It is only a matter of time.
I used to think U.S. can help Uyghurs. But I have changed my mind after
Iraq War, and U.S. cooperation with the dictators in Central Asia. Of course I can not blame United States for doing so. Americans did what any other country would have done in their place. However, we should keep in mind that when the time comes, we can only depend on ourselves, not any other nations.
UighurEurope
02-07-05, 10:57
Everything is right. The philosophy of freedom and democracy, the human rights and fairness is very important in our lives.
We get up every morning, and think desperately about one thing - Freedom. We want to free ourselves from this eternal pain in our souls, and the only feasible way we see is through independence of our land.
I thought, each day questioned myself, why? Why am I suffering from that? Why am I getting so depressed and opressed? Why anger and discontent are masters of my soul? And the only thing that I appreciate is my patriotism and eagerness to fight for my country.
Can destructive force create something positive? Is my pain capable of empowering me to fight? To fight with all my force against evil and oblivion?
By not going too deep into philosophical reflection, it is better to put things in context of contemporary reality and essentially underline the cornerstones of current universe.
People are of two types(as I said before). Those who speak about politics, and those who do it. Fortunately to the world, those who do politics, doesn't speak too much about it, so everybody can sleep tight, because the truth is really annoying.
We should distinguish us, in other words people, who are suffering and dreaming about independence from those who try to make this independence make real.
Don't be offended, because I put myself in this category as well, though I am quite young :) , but the point is, to be successful you should be rational, you should be calm and cold-blooded, the power comes with harmony, not through agony.
Another group of Uighurs, those who understood this major principle already closed their mouths, talking only when it is really important, and not trying to shout "I am Uighur, I am different from Chinese", this is very essential step forward, which will help our nation to get what we want.
I didn't mean to speak down to any of you, or to show how arrogant young Uighurs can be :) , for me it is a question of principle, since somebody opened such a discussion.
To conclude, I would say that: To be understood by others, you need to be educated. To be admired, you need to be educated better than others. By admiration and fear of others, you get the power. by getting power you will make your dream approachable.
Calm down, don't try to persuade people. Instead, become stronger yourself, and people will be persuaded by your actions, not your air words.
Teach your children as equal to any others. Do not cultivate in them hateness, or guilt or pain. Explain them their origins, teach Uighur language. Make them to be proud of their origin as a ANGELS WINGS, not as a deadly BURDEN on their shoulders.
Best,
UighurEurope/Taklamakan (c)
03 July 2005
To UighurEurope
02-07-05, 11:42
You are right. The higher you go, the more powerful you become. Only then you will able to help your people.
Here is my email: Ariesmirage@yahoo.com
Don't lose it this time.
Aries
Actually none of us tried to persuade others to do something. We simply expressed ourselves in the way how we feel.
I am neither a politician nor a freedom fighter. But I am one of the people who care about the future of the people left behind us.
It is quite normal that we have different views toward the same issue. But I believe we can live in harmony as long as we know how to deal with the issues with wisdom, and how to treat others who do not agree with us with respect and dignity. So please don't worry too much about challenging us. That is how the discussion goes. :)
If we be divorced from China, will be like Afghanistan.
Uyghur in England.
05-07-05, 01:31
Thats true bro , As a Uyghur I believe improve the standard of living
for the Uyghur people is primary . Freedom and democracy don't
really mean to small people like us.
China is really doing something these years to help the basic Uyghur
people to improve their living standard. Without them , I believe we
will see another Kyrgyzstan or Afganistan , political instablity and
poor conditions for our own people.
Thats true bro , As a Uyghur I believe improve the standard of living
for the Uyghur people is primary . Freedom and democracy don't
really mean to small people like us.
China is really doing something these years to help the basic Uyghur
people to improve their living standard. Without them , I believe we
will see another Kyrgyzstan or Afganistan , political instablity and
poor conditions for our own people.
Let me just ask you a few simple questions:
How would you feel if someone intrude your house, take everything, and treat you, your parents, and your brothers and sisters like servants? Would you be willing to obey him because he is strong, and he provides you good food, good clothes?
So what is meaning of being alive? Eat well, dress well no matter how bad someone treats you? Where is the dignity?
Uyghur in England
05-07-05, 05:13
Let me just ask you a few simple questions:
How would you feel if someone intrude your house, take everything, and treat you, your parents, and your brothers and sisters like servants? Would you be willing to obey him because he is strong, and he provides you good food, good clothes?
So what is meaning of being alive? Eat well, dress well no matter how bad someone treats you? Where is the dignity?
I have lived in XinJiang for more than 10 years , I have never seen or
experienced with such actions. Maybe there are people who happens to
be like that , I feel regret about them.
I know some things you don't even though I haven't lived there longer than you did. You are lucky because you haven't experienced that misery. But that doesn't mean other people are not suffering. So please do not generalize your own experience, and try to take a serious look at what is happening in East Turkistan, I mean, not merely economically, but socially, politically, religiously, culturally.
What I was getting at is not the suffering of a particular person, but the sorrow and unhappiness of the Uyghurs as a people in communist China.
I agree with many of East Turkistan friends here, that China's present occupation causes suffering to people of East Turkistan and as well as in Tibet. Both Tibetan and East Turkistan people are facing the same suffering as a result of China's iron grip on the regions. I hope E.T. brothers and sisters keep the spirit burning and freedom will come to both the regions.
Freelance
Hi, I am interested in getting some information on Han migration into Xinjaing. Why do Han come to Xinjiang? What role does the PCC play? What does the PCC do?
I am writing a paper for one of my graduate classes on Chinese oppression of Uigurs.
Thanks,
Flysouth
What do you think? I am curious about your opinions before I say something.
Hi, I am interested in getting some information on Han migration into Xinjaing. Why do Han come to Xinjiang? What role does the PCC play? What does the PCC do?
I am writing a paper for one of my graduate classes on Chinese oppression of Uigurs.
Thanks,
Flysouth
Unregistered
19-07-05, 02:50
Thanks for your response. From what limited reading that I have done so far it seems that while some of the Chinese policies in the Go West program might be well-intentioned, the Chinese government also realizes that 1) it has no choice if it wants to maintain territorial integrity, and 2) that it is increasing the Han population in Xinjiang and that this will certainly benefit China's future with regards to Xinjiang.
However, it seems to me that the cultures are so vastly different that unity will be difficult, if not impossible. This is not a comment on whether it SHOULD happen, rather on whether of COULD happen. The upside for Uigurs is that as part of China they will likely benifit from economic incentives and the stability that being part of China brings, unlike one would find in Central Asia. The downside is that .... quite simply, you are under the rule of a foreign power and this is undesirable.
But my questions are not directed so much at an opinion of Uigur splittist movements, rather I am asking what policies China is using to get Chinese people to move to Xinjiang.
I am intersted in any comments on this, as well as thoughtful comments on how this conflict might play out in the next 10-20 years.
Thanks,
Flysouth
Unregistered
19-07-05, 03:34
Let God (tanrı) protect(korusun) and exalt(yuceltsin) Turks .
As anatolian turkish nationalists we are supporting your war against chinese government.
In my opinion, there are at least three reasons for this massive migration:
1. To protect the "integrity" of the "geat" chinese nation, and consolidate the power of Chinese Communist Party in East Turkistan.
2. To mitigate the pressure of unemployment, overpopulation, and the lack of land and resources in chinese natural terroritory(You know what I mean)
3. To eradicate Uyghur seperatism and anti-han sentiment by incorporate Uyghurs into Han Nation.
Thanks for your response. From what limited reading that I have done so far it seems that while some of the Chinese policies in the Go West program might be well-intentioned, the Chinese government also realizes that 1) it has no choice if it wants to maintain territorial integrity, and 2) that it is increasing the Han population in Xinjiang and that this will certainly benefit China's future with regards to Xinjiang.
However, it seems to me that the cultures are so vastly different that unity will be difficult, if not impossible. This is not a comment on whether it SHOULD happen, rather on whether of COULD happen. The upside for Uigurs is that as part of China they will likely benifit from economic incentives and the stability that being part of China brings, unlike one would find in Central Asia. The downside is that .... quite simply, you are under the rule of a foreign power and this is undesirable.
But my questions are not directed so much at an opinion of Uigur splittist movements, rather I am asking what policies China is using to get Chinese people to move to Xinjiang.
I am intersted in any comments on this, as well as thoughtful comments on how this conflict might play out in the next 10-20 years.
Thanks,
Flysouth
Mening ana maktipim da bolgan hakiki ix:
Mening burun ki maktipim nahayiti korkam ham qong idi,2000 yi li ma lum ixla tupay li din,oz makti pimiz ni hitay maktap ka ot kuzup berp , ozimi makrap yeni di ki kiqik bina ga koqup kalgan tuk,birak toh tam da maydan ni otkaz mi gan ti. Malum bir kuni Uyghur maktap ti ki balla football musabiki si otkus wat kan ti, biz mu musa bika kor wat kan tuk,tuyuk siz hitay mak tap tiki ukughuqi lar maydan otur sida basketball oynax ka quxup katti. Football oyna watkan balila ularga '' silar kar gu bop kalding lar mu biz ning musa bika qux wat ki ni miz ni kor mi ding lar mu de sa" ular" bu biz ning yar, biz ning hazer basketball oy nay miz,silar musa bikini keyin oyni we ling lar" dap kulu xup katti, hami miz ning xundak aqiki kaldi,Biz ning tantar biya muallimiz ,ular ning tatntar biya okut kiqi si ga qiray lik halda" balilar musa bika qux wat kan ti, silar ning bu ni ma kil gi ning lar desa" u adam yarat mi gan dak baxka yarga karap kulup tur waldi ham ukughuqili ri ga"silar basketball ni oyna wering lar birasi bozak kil sa mang ga dang lar" tantar biya muallimiz nahayiti aqiki kalgan halda u hitay malim ning yakisidin tartip turup "man sang ga qiray lik gap kilsam ,ozang ni bil miding,sang ga yana bir ketim dap koyay,awu wu hitay balli ring ni maydan din yokat,biz musabika qux wa timiz"de di,hamimiz yugrap axutarap bar duk,maydan warang qurung bop katti,hitay okughu qilar sahqi lar ni bax lap kaldi,sahqi 6_7 uygur balilar ni tutup katti.Biz hayran bolgan halda" biz nima kilduk,nimdap bizning balilar ni tutusilar"dap hakarduk hamda shqilarning akisidin agixip,maktap tin yirak bolmigan sahqihani giqe billa barduk,hamda sahqihana aldida turwalduk,bir dostum sahqi akisiga telfun kilip ahwal lani dedi, uzak otmay dostum ning akisi kelip , biz ga "sila oyga keting la buyarda turmang la "dap koyup ahqi idari si ga kirip katti, jih balila oyli ri ga ketix ti ,man dos tum bilan uning akisi ni sah lap turduk, 3-4 sa at tin keyin tutep ketil gan balilar sahqi hanidin qik ti,ular biz ga, " towa nemidigan nahak ha?biz ya wex nim kilmi sak,ulada hata turup biz ni tut waldi" de mi si muxu, ozi miz ning yaridi mu bir ix kila misak, xu ning bilan u musabiki mu ayak lax mayla muxundak kalay mikan qilik qikip kati, bu mening oz kozam bilan koran nahak lik,buning din mu jih nahak ix lar bar, biz yana axu ix laga qidap yaxap kel wati miz.......
Unregistered
10-06-06, 05:42
This statement shows you are either an ignorant or Han chinese. My assumtion could be wrong. but chances are low. Normal Uyghur do not sound like you.
I have lived in XinJiang for more than 10 years , I have never seen or
experienced with such actions. Maybe there are people who happens to
be like that , I feel regret about them.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.12 Copyright © 2012 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.